Excuse me, I thought this was in the Pit. I apologize profusely for the tone of my post here in MPSIMS. If I get a warning, it would be appropriate.
Again, apologies.
I do this if I just turned into the lane and haven’t had a chance to change to the middle. Or, if I’m turning into a parking lot right after the intersection. The only other time I will do this is if turning right requires driving forward more than 2 car lengths. To me, this is not an appropriate place to turn right on red. It actually requires driving into the intersection before turning and I feel that it’s not safe. No one seems to agree with me on this one. But, it makes me feel unsafe so I’m not gonna do it.
But, if I’m stuck at a red light behind someone who refuses to turn, I just sit there. I don’t get worked up - even if I’m in a rush. My reasoning for remaining calm is that a few more seconds each day in my car means just a few more seconds of ME time. Time when I don’t have to deal with anyone at all. I like the peace and quiet of being alone in my car so I don’t allow it to piss me off.
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Thank You! Those are rational reasons I may take into consideration the next time the situation presents. Most likely though, if I can get next to them, I’ll just dog them with my :wally face.
I personally don’t pull into the intersection when making a left unless I can clearly see a huge gap coming up and know I can make it. The reason for this is that here in Tallahassee, running the red light is the norm. People seem to think that if they saw the light when it was green, they are allowed to go through it. By the time they’re done, it’s green the other way and if my happy ass is sitting in the intersection, all those people are waiting on me to turn (best case scenario) or on their way to run me down (also a possibility in this town).
Sigh. Someday, I dream of posting to a message board where people notice my posts. Someday . . .
Is there something special in the U.S. about turning right on red that makes it optional?
Where I come from, if the law says you can turn right on red when it’s safe to do so, and it is clearly safe to do so, but you choose to sit and munch your sandwich because you don’t feel like turning, you are breaking the law by impeding traffic. This seems doubly true if you are actually signalling your intention to turn by having your right turn light blinking (and if it’s not blinking and you turn, you’re guilty of failing to signal).
In Canada, you always turn right on red when it is safe. Or at least, every place I’ve ever driven in Canada. If someone sat in the right lane and didn’t turn, and there was no traffic coming and that was clearly visible to the driver, you can bet that horns would be honking at him.
But maybe there’s something special about this situation in U.S. traffic law? Does the law explicitly say that you don’t have to turn right on red, even when it’s clearly safe to do so, as long as you don’t feel like it? Or are you getting ‘optional’ out of the statement that you can turn right on red, but only when you feel it’s safe to do so? That does not mean, "Unless you’re munching a pretzel’, or ‘unless you’d just be slowed down by another light anway’. It means you exercise your judgement to determine if it’s safe to turn, then you turn.
In any event, the whole idea is to not behave like a jerk. If you know you can turn, and it’s safe to turn, then bloody well turn, even if it’s technically ‘optional’. It’s called being a good citizen on the road.
Catsix: So you’ll choose to just sit there, because you know you’ll just get caught at the next light anyhow, huh? And you feel free to make that decision for the guy behind you, who may not be heading for that light, but instead for the entryway around the corner? Or perhaps more traffic will come along such that when the light finally goes green you’re now stuck behind a dozen cars at the next light. Why wouldn’t you just turn the corner and lower everyone’s blood pressure? I sincerely don’t get this attitude.
It’s like driving on the freeway, and someone clearly needs to get across your lane into the off-ramp. Now, you don’t have to back off and let him across. The law is mute on this point. But you’re a dickhead if you close the gap and prevent the guy from getting through, simply because you’re standing on your right to behave anyway you want within the law, and screw everyone else.
Let’s clear up the etiquette on how to turn left in a busy intersection.
First, let’s go back and look at what the lights mean. Green means, “PROCEED through (or into) the intersection.” Yellow means, “CLEAR the intersection”. Red means, “DO NOT ENTER the intersection.”
When turning left, you are expected to ENTER the intersection on green, and wait for the ability to turn safely. When the light goes yellow, everyone is excpected to clear through the intersection. If it goes red and you are still in the intersection because other people are running lights or you otherwise haven’t had a safe opportunity to clear, that is perfectly okay so long as you entered it correctly and have not had a safe opportunity to clear it. All traffic is expected to wait until everyone has cleared the intersection. It’s common for the person turning left to be the last one to do so, and it’s often on a red light.
In Canada, if you do not enter the intersection on green to turn left, you will lose points on your driver’s exam. Because if you do not enter the intersection, you have only two options - to enter it on yellow, which is illegal when you don’t have to do it, or to wait at the stop line until the intersection is clear and the light is still green, whcih may NEVER happen in a really busy intersection.
If you’re in the habit of sitting on a green, then when the intersection clears on yellow you bolt out and turn left, then you’re breaking the law. It’s also dangerous, because the people who may jump the light in the opposite direction as it’s turning green have no indication of your intentions.
On the other hand, if you just sit there until you have both a green light AND A gap, then in rush hour traffic you may never get a chance to turn. That’s common. There are many intersections I drive through where it is routine for the only cars to make it through a left turn are the ones that were in the intersection. Usually that will be a chain of two or three cars, so proceeding into the intersection allows three cars to turn left. Sitting at the stop line might get you through if you’re lucky, but everyone else is out of luck. So you are seriously holding up traffic.
Those of you who sit at the stop line when the light is green are simply wrong.
I was going to post that it is illegal to turn right on red in Quebec, but then I googled it, and they have updated their laws. In other words, I agree with you.
I did see something worth posting on that site, however:
Just thought I’d mention that, since no one seems to know it. 
While turning right on red, that is.
I know I am! But when I first moved here I tried pulling into the middle, only to sit there LONG after the light had turned red because people wouldn’t stop coming. I would wonder, “Is this one going to stop? Surely this next guy will stop! Why won’t they stop?” I felt like I was going to mowed down at any second.
Eventually I decided I’d rather be wrong (and feel more safe) sometimes and just wait for the arrow on the next go-round. It’s actually pretty rare that I don’t see that gap coming up and pull out, though.
I do plan to move as soon as I’m done with school, back to a town where people actually start slowing down when they see the light turn yellow, and use their blinkers and let you merge and stuff. That will be cool.
Hmm. Maybe this is a regional difference; around here, we always have left turn arrows at such busy intersections. If my only options for turning left were to pull into the intersection and turn as the light turns red, or to not pull into the intersection and bolt out at the last minute, then yeah, I would certainly prefer the former, but that’s just never the case where I live.
What people in this thread are observing is that much of the time it isn’t clearly and visibly safe to do so. In many or perhaps even most cases, the only way to see the oncoming traffic is to move beyond the stop line onto the crosswalk, which as featherlou points out is illegal.
If it’s a matter of safety, I agree. I was addressing the notion that some people seem to have here that because it’s ‘optional’, you can choose to just sit there if you want, for any reason. One example offered was, “Why turn? I just have to wait for the next light anyway.” Another was a person eating a pretzel.
The point is, “Turn if you deem it’s safe” does not equal, “Turn when you feel like it”.
I think this feeling comes from the belief that when a light turns red, we should not be in the intersection. It feels very uncomfortable. So people get scared to move into the intersection to turn left for fear that they’ll be ‘stranded’ on a red light.
You just have to remember that you’re not doing anything wrong, and that other cars can clearly see you there. If other people are running a yellow or a red, then THEY are wrong. You wait for them to clear, then turn left. As long as you entered the intersection on green, you are not breaking the law.
There is one nuance to this - in some states in the U.S., you are prohibited from entering an intersection on a green light if the intersection is blocked such that you cannot clear the intersection. This law is really intended to prevent people from sitting in an intersection because the traffic in front of them is stopped and backed up to the intersection. In that case, you may not be able to clear the intersection at all, even after the light is red, because there’s no place to go. I would also take that to mean that you should not enter the intersection to turn left if there’s already another car in the intersection in front of you also turning left, because he may sit there and block you from clearing. This has happened to me before. You pull into a large intersection because there’s room for two cars to wait to turn left. But the guy in front of you chokes and just sits there when the light turns red, and then other traffic starts creeping forward. Then finally the guy realizes he’d better go, so he clears, but in the meantime other cars have moved into the intersection making it difficult for you to move safely.
It should be law that you must turn on right (or left if it’s on to a one way) red if you can. The power trip to make people wait with you needs to be stopped.
Turn if you can please.
I am in Rochester, NY but originally from Detroit. I have been in Rochester for 3 years. The FIRST thing I learned about Rochester is most of the population CANNOT DRIVE. What the hell is it about pulling half your vehicle out in to a lane of moving traffic when trying to turn on to the road?! Sometimes I wish I had access to an unlimited amout of junk cars that are drivable so that I could smash the front end of these cars so long as no one gets hurt. Once a day someone merges without a signal or looking to see that I am there. Does the driving get worse the further away from the Motor City? If so then I am not in Rochester, I am in China.
OMG I am so rude. :wally You posted pretty much the identical answer yet two responses after my quest. I deeply apologize. Somehow I missed that. And it was just a perfect response! 10.0