I’m not Catholic but I’ve listened to this guy on occasion and he seems for the most part a straightforward person, bordering on blunt, even though I don’t agree with all of his views. Per below the scenario he outlines in a sympathetic context is that a seducing (presumably gay) teenaged boy will seduce a confused older man. Political correctness aside, does this ever happen in real life? Are older men (Priests in this context) going though some kind of emotional crisis vulnerable to seductive boys?
Is this the way these interactions go…ever? Horny gay teenage boys satisfying their curiosity and lust with vulnerable older men? He sounds like he is speaking from experience in terms of his dealing with other priests who have been accused of molesting kids. Is that really the way these accused Priests view the context of their interactions with young men, that they are the victims?
I don’t see why it wouldn’t be possible. Teenagers can certainly be actively seductive, some are attracted to older people, and some older people are indeed confused.
However, it’s not the most likely scenario resulting in a relationship between a teen and a priest. The fact that Fr Groeschel seems to think it is shows that he is, in the best case scenario, clueless.
FTR, I remember that when I was about 30, I was seriously hit on by a girl who was, IIRC, 14. She was certainly actively seductive and provocative. I also learned that I wasn’t the first older man she was trying to catch (and she succeeded at least once though I think this guy was younger than me…maybe early 20s).
Yeah, but this is not a pitting. It’s a IMHO question. Is it within the bounds of the way these things happen that teenage boys would ever be the seducers in this context? I’m assuming Groeschel has had extensive and long term interactions with these accused priests and he believes what he says.
In the real world of older man / teenage boy hookups is the older man ever the seduced and the boy the seducer?
What is “seduction”? I mean, I am sure gay teens get crushes just like any other teen. If a kid with an obvious crush hangs around after the other kids have left, holds hugs a little longer than he should, compliments the object of his crush whenever he gets a chance, confides in his crush, asks questions of and shows deep sympathy and compassion for his crush, stands a little too close to his crush . . .basically acts like a normal love-sick teen, is that “seduction”? I don’t think so, but I think you could convince yourself it was if you wanted desperately wanted to justify something unjustifiable. Teens aren’t subtle, and if the adult is giving the slightest encouragement–encouragement so subtle that they can lie to themselves that they are doing it at all–the teen will take care of the more dramatic escalation.
If you work closely with kids, if you care about kids, some are going to fall in love with you. Taking advantage of that to satisfy yourself is no better than taking advantage of someone being passed out in the back room at a party; worse, perhaps, because people play some role in being passed out in the back room at a party, but children are just naturally children, and they just naturally fall in love.
Ever? Sure. The likeliest explanation for more than a fraction of cases? Probably not. Zebras, not horses.
Plus, it sort of goes off the rails as a defense of multiple offense sexual predators, which it seems like many of these accused priests are (as well as Sandusky, who I believe Groeschel named by name, didn’t he?) I’m willing to buy, just barely, that Father Bob may have gotten seduced by Jimmy Jones. But if he wants me to believe that he’s been seduced by Jimmy Jones and Mikey Smith and Davey Doe and 12 other boys over 20 years? Riiiiiight. I don’t think so.
Even conceding that the boy could be the initiator of the seduction, does that really make a difference? It’s still an older man in a position of authority. The imbalance of power is in his favor, it’s still essentially his decision whether sexual contact happens.
When I think of it, I’ve another example. The little brother of a girlfriend went to the UK when he was 16 specifically with the intent of having sex (for the first time) with an older man (I mean a random older man, not someone in particular). I can’t remember exactly why he went to the UK for this but in any case he had no intent of entering in any meaningful relationship. I also suppose that “older” probably meant some young adult, not a 60 yo.
I wasn’t there obviously, but I also suppose his plan consisted more in “volunteering” than “seducing”.
Working with gay youth centers, yes teenage gay boys can be very aggressive sexually. They can and do come on to older men in the same way that heterosexual boys pursue older women.
Seriously though, any adult that can’t turn down the advances of a teenage has no business in a position of authority over them.
No means no, even teenagers can understand that. The only trick to saying no to gay teenagers is telling them in a way that they don’t feel rejected for who they are.
Exactly this. Part of being an adult is knowing where the boundaries are and respecting them. And if you feel so tempted you fear you may cross the line, then you get yourself out of that situation. If an adult is attracted to a teenager who also has a crush on the adult - then the adult must never allow himself or herself to be alone with that teenager.
Being Catholic and all, Fr Groeschel should know the phrase from the Act of Contrition: “avoid the near occasions of sin.” :dubious:
The real problem with Rev. Groeschel’s claim is that he cites Jerry Sandusky as an example, who was caught molesting 10-year-olds. Older teens I can accept…but ten year olds???
And I agree that it’s absolutely ludicrous to blame any minor for “seducing” an adult, since the adult must act responsibly and turn down the advances, especially if they are already in a position of authority.
Young teenagers can be sexually provocative, I think anyone who’s been a teenager knows that, either because they were like that themselves or because they knew some other teenagers who were.
And yes, some older men are niave, can be flattered by the attention and can be unwise to the ways of the world and find themselves easily led by a seriously determined sexually aggressive teenager.
However, a priest should not be any of those things.
Priests are educated men, in order to get ordained as a priest they have to have completed clerical studies where they learn not just theology but psychology and how their role as a priest requires pastoral care and looking after people and providing guidance and being a figure of authority over their parishioners and all manner of other sorts of things that your average older man (or woman) in the street has never received any formal training in or for.
So, while I do not doubt that there are teenagers who can set themselves up as seducers of older people, any person who has been formally trained to be a priest should not be susceptible to such advances, because he more than anyone else, ought to know better.
Of course teenage boys can seduce older men. So can teenage girls.
But one of the responsibilities of adulthood is to refuse such seductions. (Not to mention resisting the temptation to initiate a seduction of a minor.)
As Dublin11 says, this is even more true for Catholic priests.
And if Catholic priests are more easily ‘victimized’ in this regard than adults in general, and are to be pitied rather than prosecuted, then they should stop ordaining Catholic priests, because in that case, ordination is clearly bad for both the congregation of the faithful and the soul of the priest.
I did some research on pedophilia for a report back in college. One thing I remember is that the claiming that they had been seduced was very popular amongst convicted pedophile child molesters, and that psychologists verified that they actually seemed to believe what they said. They know that their actions are supposed to be wrong, so they have to justify those actions to themselves.
And it wouldn’t surprise me that a priest, hearing those beliefs but never being in contact with the kids, might believe them. They would be incredibly sincere.