Any thoughts? My prime examples both come from the TV show MAS*H (yes, I’m dating myself).
First example is Benjamin Franklin “Hawkeye” Pierce. An obviously highly skilled surgeon whom we are supposed to like because he “cares”. In truth, Pierce is a sex-obsessed, womanizing alcoholic who gets so hung up on his self-righteousness that in one episode he takes the side of a enemy spy who tried to kill one of his patients. Not to mention he’s a slob.
Second, Major Charles Emerson Winchester III. On the surface, pompous, arrogant, filled with conceit. Yet when you get to know him, you see he has redeeming factors. Stands up for his sister who stutters, convinces a musician who lost a hand to continue his piano playing career…if only he hadn’t pulled that scrip scam and also drugged Radar’s mouse ahead of the big race.
Honorable mention for the virtuous-but-really-jerk category: Sorry It’s A Wonderful Life fans, but it’s George Bailey, the king of taking one’s frustrations out on others. Chase your dreams, George…no one is forcing you to stay in Bedford Falls.
Agree, disagree…the are no wrong opinions. I thank you all in advance…
James Bond is creepy. He’s supposed to be a hero, and I suppose I’m glad he’s out there saving the world…but he’s mean-spirited and sexually aggressive. Some of his seductions have looked a lot like rapes.
Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda could have spared Luke quite a bit of grief simply by telling him the doggone truth. Terrible ethics. Also, in the prequels, the Jedi Council screwed up really badly…and young Obi-Wan screwed up worse.
Superdickery.com has a lot of fun stuff about how Superman has been a total dick upon many occasions. It’s mostly a joke, and doesn’t apply to a thoughtful examination of Superman’s character, which, by and large, is pretty golden. Still, if there’s a Superman, why is there still human suffering on a very large scale? He really could make MUCH more of a difference than he allows himself to.
IMHO, this needs to be laid at the feet of Alan Alda. As the show progresses, this gradually becomes more evident. In the later years of the series, Alda got more and more control over the scripts and it got much worse.
I’m kind of intrigued by these “complicated TV types”. Much harder to write a “mostly good but with huge blind spots” or “selfish, but with a heart down deep” characters.
I’d rather spend my television viewing time with a Doctor Charles Emerson Winchester the Third than a Doctor Miguelito Quixote Loveless.
Also, he’s a good example of the contrapositive invited by the OP: a “bad guy” who actually has some charm, class, and even the kernel of a valid point. The world is horribly cruel to “the little guy,” and his ideas (while utterly insane) would have addressed that kind of injustice.
I love Fred Astaire movies. But in a lot of them…he’s kind of a jerk. In some of them, he’s REALLY a jerk.
Unfortunately they all kind of blur together in my mind after not seeing any of them for awhile. Only example I can think of off the top of my head, Broadway Melody of 1933[?] with Eleanor Powell. He is overlooked for a big B’way show because he lied about his identity, to protect his partner, granted, but still…
Lady Catherine in Pride & Prejudice. She’s portrayed as a real dragon in the 1940 film when she interviews Elizabeth, but it’s soon revealed that her heart is in the right place.
Oh, Hawkeye was a jerk even when he was sober. But as my friend longhair75 points out, that was more Alan Alda than the original conception of the character. Hawkeye was a skilled surgeon but he lacked all sorts of things in the “interpersonal” arena. Supposed to be the guy we are rooting for, but I usually walk away from the later seasons wishing he’d step on a land mine.
If rape is defined (I’m sure it varies by jurisdiction) as tricking a woman into sex through manipulation or identity theft, or placing a woman under emotional duress to sleep with you, he has committed rape many, many times. The original books portray this as all in the service of Queen and Country.
Mean Mr. Mustard wrote: Not sure if you want to equate being an alcoholic to being a jerk. Your point is well taken. Alcoholism in and of itself does not make one a bad person. However, (and I didn’t intend for the thread to get deep) but I hope you will understand that I spent my time as a teenager watching my immediate family be destroyed in large part due to an alcoholic parent who refused to get help. The next drink was more important to them than their own kids, and the effects remain to this very day, so I hope you’ll understand. If you were offended, please accept my apologies.
Guizot wrote: But where do you get that he was supposed to virtuous?
Where does one begin? The character was clearly written to be filled with self-righteous virtue, and I referenced an instance in my original post…the episode where he was so filled with self-righteousness that he becomes more interested in saving an enemy spy than waking up to the fact that said spy tired to kill one of his own patients.
Or how about the episode where Hawkeye doesn’t approve of a commander’s battle tactics, so he decides to take matters into his own hands, and literally drugs the guy so he can take out his appendix. Yeah, so what if it’s a gross violation of every medical ethics rule in the book…but hey, Hawkeye disapproves, so it’s OK…ethics be damned.
Both eps hit a preach factor of about ten out of ten.
Although to be fair, other posters have accurately pointed out that the fault lies with Alan Alda, who decided to make the series his own personal soap box…something which ruined it for a lot of people.
You might be interested in Tunes of Glory, starring Alec Guinness and John Mills, and Dead Ringers, starring Jeremy Irons.
Each film starts with an obvious hero and an obvious villain. But as each film progresses, the “good guy” starts to alienate your affections, and the “bad guy” starts to earn your respect.
Right – he’s obviously not meant to be virtuous. Not that I’ve seen the show all that much, but I didn’t get that his character was meant to be right all the time.
Lily Aldren in How I Met Your Mother. Sure, she was cute and a Kindergarten teacher who loved kids, but was shown numerous times to be a master manipulator, and wouldn’t hesitate to steal things when someone violated her personal sense of justice.
While she occasionally got caught red-handed, the only person who realized this was actually part of her character was Barney, who admired her for it.
