On exiting a local restaurant and returning to our car last Saturday, Mrs. Pyrrhonist and I noticed a strange flicking whitish light coming from the Ford Excursion parked in front of us. There was a whole family inside watching TV. They were parked, transfixed, and presumably eating take out. Now I’ve heard of TVs being built in cars before, but really wanted to believe it was only an Urban Myth. Could people be so addicted to TV that they have to have it in there car too? What kind of brain addled TV Zombies will arise from being unable to separate themselves from the idiot box while jaunting to mall?. Or even, heaven forbid, on an eight hour road trip?
I quit watching TV in October 1995 and haven’t turned on the idiot box since, so maybe I missing something. What is so freaking essential that some people can’t live without it even in their cars?
Who can be entertained on long road trips via selected videos.
I just hope TVs are never designed by the auto companies to be viewable by the driver while driving
Well, sure. They’ve been building TVs in conversion vans for a long time. (I used to own one.) The main reason they’re in there is for kids on long trips - if you’ve ever been on a long road trip with youngsters, you know it’s tough to keep them occupied so they don’t start screaming every five minutes about having to pee or puke or whatever. The TV is very helpful there! Plus you can even add on a VCR and give 'em videos to watch. Some may call this using the TV to babysit, but I call it good, solid parenting, especially when you’re trying to find Exit 76 on a dark, desolate highway and you don’t need Johnny bitching at you to screw the trip to the Largest Ball of Twine and instead go to the Mustang Ranch down the road.
I just recently got a TV and a VCP installed in my conversion van. But I swear to you its only for little milliAmp on the long trips we take from Tampa to Cleveland. Just pop a tape in and that kid is quiet as hell.
As far as the driver seeing the TV while driving, it is my understanding (at least in the fine state of Minnesota) that it is illegal for the driver to be able to view screens of the sort (I think a local college athelete got in trouble for this). And I have been especially careful not to get busted for this when I use my laptop (for listening to mp3s over my car stereo) when I drive.
I’m not sure if it’s any screen, though. There’s a commercial for a new car (forget who’s making it, but it’s more of a luxury car than a reg’lar car) that has a screen in the middle of the dash that the driver can use while backing up.
(Anyone know what I’m talking about? The car goes backwards up the parking-garage ramp and backs into a spot? I think it’s gotta be a BMW or Mercedes.)
Did you know that children who do NOT have a TV in there house do better at school, this is true.
It may be more to learning to concentrate or using reading schools at home as well as school than just the ‘idiot’ box.
Strangely, although you now know this you will be unable to get rid of the TV due to your addiction.
tv - just say no…
Okay, I don’t have kids and will never have kids, but turning on the TV as “good, solid parenting” on a road trip? :rolleyes:
What ever happened to reading them a book? If your kids can only be kept from fussing by the Glass Teat, then there is something seriously deficient in your kids. They’re TV Zombies. The sad fact is parents let kids become TV Zombies rather willfully and gleefully. A kid, an adult, or a senior citizen should be able to go a few hours without TV. Hell, going a week without TV shouldn’t be a problem for anyone. Of course, the operative word in the last sentence is shouldn’t. TV isn’t one of life’s essentials like food, water, and sleep, but it is increasingly treated that way. There is nothing on the TV that will cause a life to expire if it isn’t seen. That is my point. People are becoming so TV Zombiefied that they or their kids require the ever present TV to pacify them. Very inept parenting if you ask me.
Hm. You don’t have kids and will never have kids, but you presume to know all there is to know about good parenting? Let’s examine the flaws in your argument, shall we?
Merely putting on the TV doesn’t make someone a “TV Zombie”. Did it ever occur to you that what they have their children watch in the car is educational? Did that ever enter into the equation?
I’ll tell you whatever happened to reading them a book. Let’s say you’re a single parent. Your kids are in the backseat of a large car, perhaps a van. You want to read to them while driving? That sounds just a teeny bit unsafe to me. I would think they’d be much, much better off if you didn’t. In fact, I would say all the other drivers on the road would appreciate it if you didn’t, too.
Actually, it’s not a “sad fact”; it’s your opinion. And it’s an unfounded one, since you’re basing it on some idealized notion of reality that’s unattainable. If you consider this to be a fact, please provide a cite backing it up, pronto.
I’m also glad you think going a week without TV shouldn’t be a problem for anyone, but surprise! We’re not talking about what’s the ultimate in necessities for a road trip. Yes, food and water are necessary. So what? No one has ever said that depriving the child of TV would kill them. What TV in the car does is help keep the kids amused (but since you don’t have any, you might not recognize the importance of this) while allowing the parent or parents to drive the damn vehicle. If you would prefer that they entertain at the expense of, say, a pedestrian or another motorist, that’s your preference.
Except, of course, for the educational programs. Are you against education, for some reason? Or are you from some society that thinks anything electronic is inherently bad? Look, anything can be bad if it’s used badly. For goodness’ sake, don’t lump everyone into the category of “bad parent” just because you don’t understand the issue.
I agree with Pyrrhonist! I mean since when do we need much more in our lives than food, water and sleep. To heck with TV! What’s more, why do we need computers? Just something else for our kids to stare into blankly while playing those violent video games and downloading porn. Absolutely no redeaming value in CRT’s of any type. None!
And don’t get me started on books. Those verbose, useless collections of fiction and interpretive reality. Why poison out children’s brains with that tripe?
What’s more, cars… who needs to go that fast anyway? And what’s so different over there that you can’t get right at home? The noise, the smell, the costly maintenance. Get rid of them, I say.
But let’s get to the crux of the entire issue here. It’s those darned rotten kids that demand all these things we give them. Why do we bother. The little leaches are completely unappreciative anyway! Get rid of the kids and the world will be a much quieter and sensible place in no time.
Nope, it didn’t enter into the equation. The likelihood that a majority of TVs in cars are being used to show “educational” TV is a little tough to believe. I know people with kids who’d just put on cartoons or a movie.
Since there is no real definition of TV Zombie, let me give a few: 1) A person incapable of amusing one’s self without the TV on; 2) A person fixated on TV watching as way of life; 3) A person who suffers anxiety when away from the TV; 4) A person who goes gaga when told there are options other than watching TV; 5) Any person who can’t bare the torment of a long ride in a car without TV.
You mean there are families other than the Amish et al who don’t plunk down their offspring in front of the idiot box for hours at a time? I hardly need a cite to back this one up. Just ask anybody who has a kid if they introduced the kid to TV or if they kid discovered TV on his own. I think it would be rare to find the child who asked mom or dad “Hey, want is this thing called TV everybody talks about? Can I try it too?” Parents let the children’s TV habits develop, by liberally allowing hour after hour or rigidly restricting it, I don’t think a rational person could deny that; often parents are happy to let the TV do the babysitting.
Now you seem to be indicate that a kid who is not being amused could impede the driver’s ability to operate the damn vehicle. Well, since a TV in the car is so amusing and creates safer driving conditions—Why not make it a Federal law? :rolleyes: There is a law requiring children’s car seats so there could be a law requiring children’s TV in cars.
If the only thing that will keep a kid amused is the TV, then I do think the parents are lazy and irresponsible. Parents should teach their kids that TV isn’t the only amusing thing out there. What that amusing activity will be may very from child to child, but a good parent will help develop varied interests in the kid. I think that the kid who is only amused by the TV can safely be called a TV Zombie.
Yes, I think anything electronic is inherently bad. How did you know? Has my membership to the American Luddite Society been leaked to the TV news? :rolleyes: What really surprises me is how often the TV Zombie will accuse someone who doesn’t watch TV as anti-technological. (See sarcastic rant by QuickSilver as another fine example). I’ll let a psychologist explain that one. I don’t know where you got the notion I was anti-educational from what I said. Just because somebody could show “educational” TV in the car does not make it a good idea and claiming that it does is a bad idea.
That’s fine, but that’s YOU. That’s not necessarily everyone else in the world. I happen to know people with kids who would put on something more beneficial.
First of all, you’re really generalizing here. Really, now; “a person fixated on TV watching as [a] way of life”? Do you know a lot of these people? There’s a vast difference between people who watch TV and those who “suffer anxiety when away from the TV”; the former usually are in dire need of psychiatric help. I would suggest that most people in the known world are NOT in need of such help, and therefore you’re really only talking about a select few.
Huh? Of course there are. Mine, for one. And I bet there are a lot of parents on this very board who don’t do that, especially ones who don’t fall under those wonderful criteria you spelled out above.
I’m not here to do your work for you. You made the claim, therefore you should provide the cite. We don’t operate in hearsay on this board. If you have hard facts, please find them and use them. If you do not, then please admit it’s your opinion and we can move on.
You’re right, that doesn’t happen much anymore. So what? It proves nothing other than the fact that TV has been around for a long time and is a part of our culture. This relates neither to its use in cars at all nor to its applicability to a social atmosphere and child rearing. You yourself say that “parents let the children’s TV habits develop… by rigidly restricting it.” So you admit that one way parents deal with the television is that they restrict the kid’s viewing habits. This is bad?
Huh? Yes, a kid not being amused could imede the driver’s ability to drive. You’ve never had kids, therefore you cannot know how important it is to keep them amused on long rides. Why not make it a Federal law? Oh yes, brilliant idea. We’ll make everything mandatory. Might be because people don’t see it as a necessity. It doesn’t harm anyone, so the larger, more luxuriant vehicles (and the ones that can easily accomodate a TV without impeding the driver) can have them. It’s an add-on, not a standard feature. If you’re saying that it can’t be a good thing because no Federal law exists requiring them, then I have to say your logic is faulty.
No one has ever said that the TV is the only thing that will keep a kid amused, so this is really an unsubstantiated judgment. Glad you’re lending all those parents out there a helping hand, what with your extensive experience and all.
You seem to like attaching labels to things you don’t understand. Apparently, you think QuickSilver is a TV Zombie - what proof do you have of this? That he/she (forgive me) disagreed with you? Do you know how ridiculous you look when you make assumptions? You cannot make outrageous statements and then never really back them up.
Ok, so showing something “educational” in the car is a bad idea? Why? I happen to think - and you are free to disagree - that Education Is Good.
Well, you’re welcome to disagree with my impromptu definitions, but as your so fond of saying, it is only your opinion that the TV Zombies are only a select few.
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Okay, so you don’t believe me. Look at here.
You can also look here.
I think it is safe to say that there is an awful lot of TV watching going on in this country—whiether you want to call them TV Zombies or not. These are some of favorite facts:
I’m also very fond the 20,000 30 second commercials per year.
**
No, restricting viewing habits is not bad. However… quoting from one of my cites: “Percentage of parents who would like to limit their children’s TV watching: 73%; Percentage of parents able to limit their children’s TV watching: 43%” Okay, so 43% of parents do a good job of limiting their kids TV time. I dunno about you, but 43% seems pretty bad to me, not to mention the 27% that don’t seem to want to limit their kid’s TV time.
Now maybe you can convince me that the good 43% are the one buying cars with TVs to provide 25 to 23 hours per week of “educational” TV for their offspring. But I doubt it. What can I say: I’m skeptical by nature.
**
I guess the sarcasm slipped by you. I better spell it out clearly and unequivocally that I wouldn’t support any such kind of Federal law.
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Ah, assumptions. Like the assumption if I’m from “some society that thinks anything electronic is inherently bad” and “against education, for some reason?” Where did you get that ridiculous line of reasoning? I don’t suppose you really want to back it up and defend it. Or where those not really assumptions at all but rhetorical questions?
While I have no empirical evidence that QuickSilver is a TV Zombie, but I suspect he is one, even though I couldn’t prove it in a court of law. The clear and sarcastic disagree my post would lead me to believe that he holds the opposite opinions to be true.
**
Ah, yes. You’re educating your kid through TV on long trips. You’re in the 43% Even though I believe there are better ways to educate your kids, I’m not going to tell you want to do. In fact, if you–or anybody else–truly wanted to feed your kids a diet of nothing but TV, then that would be your right to do so. But I don’t think a major of the TVs in car are being used that way. There are no specifics that I know of, but my dark take on human nature would lead be you believe that most car TV will show cartoons and movies. I’m fairly certain that the car in the OP was watching Bade while its occupants where chowing down on Memphis style BBQ. I won’t even get into my opinions about people who eat in the cars.
I’m not so sure it’s only my opinion; I’m not such a forward thinker to claim complete responsibility for that notion. And while I’ll agree that it’s more than a select few who suffer from this problem, I do not see it as the huge epidemic you seem to.
I appreciate your research. The first site, however, is “The Kill Your TV Web Site”. Not exactly the most objective of sources, is it? And the second one is by (or at least promotes) the National Turn-Off TV Day. This is somewhat akin to getting health numbers only from the anti-smoking crowd.
I think any source that openly promotes one thing or another cannot be included as a solid, reliable source. You need to find a more arbitrary source to make your point, such as a scientific study.
Sure, but look at it. Seventy-three percent want to limit the TV watching. Are they successful? Do they just “want” to, or are they “doing” it? That’s important to know. Besides, most people on a survey will say they’d like to limit the number of hours of TV watching because they know too much of it IS bad.
Well, we’re not sure yet if they are actually a “good” 43%, since we’re not sure if they’re actually limiting or just wishing in their minds. Not sure what the “25 to 23 hours per week” is (I assume it’s a typo). But if we assume that 43% is limiting the TV their kid watches, then we can assume they’re being responsible in doing so. And if we can assume they’re being responsible in doing so, then yes, we can assume that the TV they do allow the kids to watch is educational.
Yes, it was a rhetorical question. You had said, “There is nothing on the TV that will cause a life to expire if it isn’t seen.” In response, I said “Except, of course, for the educational programs. Are you against education, for some reason?” Meaning that if you didn’t think there was anything worth watching on TV, and educational stuff is on TV, then therfore you might not like education. It was a rhetorical question.
You suspect someone of this after one post? Again, faulty logic. You might want to wait until you have more information about someone before you make such an assumption.
And do you mean that simply disagreeing with you means the person is a TV Zombie? Kind of an interesting parameter, there.
Good. Thanks for sparing us your “eating in the car” opinion. While possibly highly entertaining, it’s not likely to have much bearing on the discussion at hand. (Although I do wonder why it would be bad for passengers to eat while the driver drives…) Anyway, you summed it up nicely when you said, “Even though I believe there are better ways to educate your kids, I’m not going to tell you want to do.” It’s kind of ironic that you’d say that, since most of your participation in this thread seems to be you telling parents not to let their kids watch TV.
Back in the late 80’s, my dad rigged up a TV in the
van. Mom was free to navigate and Dad was free to drive.
My sister and I would be quiet, sit still, stop fighting and watch TV. It wasn’t on all the time. During long stretches on the highway, Mom shut off the TV and read to us, had us do homework, and played the usual car games.
I live in my own place now. Out of three rooms, I have a TV in two. If I could afford cable, I could set up a screen right next to my computer. Generally, whatever else I may be doing, I'm also watching TV.
I was also a National Merit finalist and a member of the Penn State honors program. I've read plenty of Shakespeare (I hold the plays are the work of Devere, but that's another GD), and Moby Dick three times.
The argument that television lowers grades and IQ has always seemed false to me. I'm not saying any of this to brag. It's relevant to the point. I've read Joseph Campbell's Power Of Myth many times and committed much of it to memory. On the other hand, I've memorized all but a handful of Simpsons episodes. If TV is the enemy of learning, I should be able to do one or the other but not both.
Look, Pyrrhonist, I admit that my earlier post was far more sarcastic than it ought to have been. It was an over-reaction to your post which I feel has little merrit and even less compelling evidence with which to support it’s claims.
By your own admission, you are:
Not a fan of television
Not a parent
And yet you insist on drawing a very specific conclusion about a very broad subject as it pertains to a very large and varied population. I’ll give you three guesses about how likely you are to be correct in your conclusions.
So let’s address the two main points above, as they pertain to you.
Since you do not watch TV, and have not since 1995(?), you probably have not been privy to the large amount of very high quality educational children’s programs produced today.
Certainly not all of them are good. Neither is all adult programming very good. Largely it is pretty poor and deserves the kind of criticism you so generously ascribe to TV in general. But the same can be said for much literature in book stores today. Intelligent people tend to have the skill to weed the good from the bad and tailor their time and energies towards the stuff with real content or of personal interest to them.
Since you are not a parent, it would behoove you to step lightly in terrain with which you are not familiar. Many parents do not monitor or limit what their children watch. So what? Should that serve as an endictment of ALL parents? Does your cursory observation of a family watching an automobile TV warrant the sort of blanket statement about all families/people who happen to own a TV? Of course not. Not even if your “TV-Zombie” label happened to be absolutely correct in that specific case.
<Warning: Anecdotal detour ahead!>
Let me give you an example of what my oldest child is into watching these days. She’s just turned 5 and has clearly outgrown Sesame Street, Blues Clues and many other quality children’s shows. She is fascinated by surgical procedures. The documentary types they so often show on A&E, Life and similar networks. Now these are not shows either my wife or I will normally tune in. Neither one of us is in the medical field professionally. We just happened to be scanning the channels for appropriate programming and our daughter expressed an interest in what the doctors were doing. Now, for a half hour a couple of time a week, we will sit down to watch the procedures with her. Half the time the surgery makes me just squirm in my seat. But not our daughter. She is rivited to every nuance of the procedure. I wish we could answer her questions better than we often do - for example, I don’t know what the hell a Metzenbaum clamp is! - but we do the best we can and I think she gets a lot out of the show. She has already announced she’ll become a doctor when she grows up (Mrs. QS and I crossing fingers and holding breath!). <end of anectdotal detour>
So, if you do not even have an incling about what’s wrong with your assumptions, then I do not think I have the time or the space (or the desire) to explain it to you. However, if you really do want to have a debate regarding the harm/benefit TV has had on today’s children then I would be happy to participate in that kind of discussion. Though it would be a very short one at that:
Too much TV = bad.
Much of the programming is poor.
Better to be outside moving/socializing than procrastinating indoors.
Reading is good, though for children that too must be monitored for content.
Children’s TV habits need to be strictly monitored and limited to child appropriate quality programming and for reasonable periods of time.
Parents should endeavour to watch TV with their children and be available to discuss and answer questions their kids may have about what they see.
Families ought to engage in many varied activities that do not involve television but which are of interest and benefit to every member.
You are setting yourself forth as an expert on “good, solid parenting” :rolleyes:
While driving a car? :rolleyes:
I enjoy a good movie now and then. My kid enjoys a good movie now and then. I enjoy a fun animation now and then (like the Nick Park, “Wallace and Gromit” shorts) and my kids enjoys one too. I enjoy watching Broadway musicals on tape (Andrew Lloyd Weber’s Really Useful Film Company now has three of these out). My kid likes them as well. I enjoy science programming as well (PBS’s Nova and Scientific American). So does my kid.
You have decided you are a TV snob and so none of these things have any merit for you because of the medium on which they appear.
Well get over yourself.
:rolleyes:
Oh do I now. Well thanks for that analysis. Now I can cure myself.
Ah, and you of course being able to go years without watching are far superior to us all. May I kiss your foot?
Arrogance rears its head far too frequently on this board but I really don’t think I have read anyone so thoroughly sneering at the rest of the world.
Well I suppose the human race needs someone to be the arbiter of what we should and shouldn’t do. Are you available? It sounds like you would love the job.
The same could be said about theater or painting or movies or books or any other media. I could far more easily give up TV than books. Should I burn those because I am becoming a book zombie? Why are you picking on Television? Just because you have chosen not to use it?
BTW it is pretty strange to stop using a major means of communication. Do you still use the phone? What about the radio? Why do you still use these and not a TV?
Wouldn’t it be better to just stop using it to watch crap? Still keeping it around to watch good stuff.
Do they now. You know I read your post and sat chuckling to myself for several minutes. Is everything in the world black and white for you or is it just TV that has no redeeming qualities? What has made you hate TV so? You do realize that it is just a tool don’t you?
PS: These are ALL real questions that require answers. (Just to avoid confusion later.)**
And now we come full circle. Glad to have your input but frankly when I go looking for parental advise I will talk to people who, at the vary least, have actually been in the presence of a child in the last 6 months.
Your attitude that sitting back in your ivory tower you somehow know better than the parents who live in the trenches every day of their lives is rather amusing.
Make whatever decisions you want for yourself but stop passing judgement on everyone who doesn’t agree with your agenda.
It is a toy, a tool, a convenience. It is not a dark monster sucking our brains out. It can be abused like any tool. So what?
And while I’ll agree that it’s more than a select few who suffer from this problem, I do not see it as the huge epidemic you seem to.