Two closest buddies at work--drop dead!

The BBQ Pit
21

[QUOTE=PunditLisa]
One day you may need their help, either professionally or personally, and you can cash in those virtual chips. That’s the way friendships work.
[/QUOTE]

I agree. This is not in essence a social situation. It’s a cost of doing business, and I need to treat it as such, and not sucker myself into thinking that I’m going out with buddies to have a good time. I’m going out with jerks from work, and I will expect in the future to get soaked for 10 or 20 or 30 bucks per night, which I have gotten back or will get back in the future in the form of smoother relations in the workplace, and the less I let on that it pisses me off no end, the better off I am. It’s just frustrating, and I appreciate being able to vent here.

ON EDIT: Ivylass, it’s a hypothetical example of what would happen IMO if I tried the “Dutch treat!” gambit. Some of it, esp. the “pack of old ladies” stuff, has occured like clockwork in the past.

22

Then I would submit that this type of employer/employee relationship is inappropriate. You are feeling pressured to pony up the entertainment bucks in order to keep things running smooth for you at work. Your office relationships at work should not be contingent on how much you can shell out (unfairly) during a night out. I can understand not wanting to antagonize someone in authority over you, so maybe I would just be “unavailable” the next few times they want to go out. If they “retaliate” in some manner, you may have the basis for a complaint.

23

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
It costs me, max, a hundred bucks per year, maybe, probably less when you account for my pathetic attempts to get some of it back (let one of them buy me a soda more often than I pick one up for one of them, etc.), and the guy who’s nominally my boss could be a real ball-buster if he ever got to disliking me (refusing to sign expense reports without receipts, challenging my travel expenses, even signing on for my annual raise or other compensation.)
[/QUOTE]
In a way, you do owe these guys. Just not in the way that they are taking advantage of you, though. It sounds like you are close colleagues and that you owe your initial hiring and current position (and salary) to them. As a result, you are obligated to treat them with respect and to perform your job with professionalism. It doesn’t sound like this is the problem.

Similarly, they owe it to you to treat you as a colleague and good employee. They are stepping over that line in their behavior.

Before saying anything that may damage your professional relationship, however, you may want to ask whether the $100/year is worth it. For example, I have never worked for any business that would accept an expense report without receipts. Do they just give you an average raise, or do they go to the wall and give you the maximum, or even a bonus? They are wrong in thinking that they are justified in taking advantage of you, but you probably couldn’t say a thing that would change their way of thinking and would only make things uncomfortable for you.

It really is amazing to me to see the number of managers who feel that their subordinates somehow “owe” them something other than professional and competent conduct.

As tough as it may be to accept, if you think that you have had more than $100/year benefit from this relationship, it may be more expedient to grin and bear it. And (this is a moral question here) I’d try to read between the lines to see if the expense report approver is tacitly encourage you to pad it out a bit to account for your nights out.

24

[QUOTE=ivylass]
I would just be “unavailable” the next few times they want to go out.
[/QUOTE]

exactly what I meant in post #7:

[QUOTE=me]
It’s just that I don’t have to go out socially with them as much as I’ve been doing over the years, and now it’s reached the point where it would be less vexing just to say, “No, sorry, fellows, can’t make it that nght. or that night. Or that night, either. Have yourselves a good time. Maybe next time. No, that night doesn’t work for me either.”
[/QUOTE]

If I can remember this for a few weeks, until the next time one of them suggests, “Hey, let’s catch a move and dinner next Friday! It’s been a while,” I’ll be okay.

OE: Plynck: Precisely. Point taken. This is better than therapy, plus I can do this in my underwear.

25

Them: “Oh, please [eye-rolling]! Are we a bunch of old ladies?”

You: “Yes, yes we are. Pony up, grandma.”

End of conversation.

26

Frankly, I think this is terribly inappropriate of your boss and the wheelchair-bound fella is playing you like fish. I’d be tempted to get really snarky with Sir Handicapped if he tried that old ladies stuff on me. Real, able people pay their share kind of stuff.

Well, that’s what I’d want to say. In RL, I’d probably never say anything like that. I would stand my ground, though re the separate checks. If they’re bad tippers, you can choose to supplement their lousy tips OR just tip well on your check. The wait staff will then know who the dicks are.
I would also cultivate some more friends so that you are genuinely busy the nights these clowns [delete]want a free ride[/delete] call you up.

27

Or:

YOU [to the waitress as you order]: Mine on a separate check, please.
THEM: What are we, a bunch of little old ladies?
YOU: Nah, I’m just trying to keep better track of where the money goes. Did you see the Laker game?

Don’t get me wrong: I completely understand your POV. I also am the type of person who does not deal well with the suspicion or belief that I’m being taken advantage of. It ruins the whole evening, and can ruin the whole relationship, as it seems to be doing in your case.

But I think you have to decide whether you value your social life with these guys enough to start inobtrusively pushing back on this, or whether you’re just going to drop them. It sounds like you’ve resolved to just drop them which is of course fine. I’d just ask you to make sure you’re not shooting yourself in the foot by doing so, depriving yourself of society you actually enjoy (except for this one thing), and giving up the chance to maintain a friendship with your boss, which is always a good thing to keep if you can.

If you want to try to maintain the friendship and push back a bit – because I agree just taking the continued exploitation is not an option – my suggestions are: (a) to construe it as your problem, which you are addressing (“I need to keep better track of my money” not “you two a a pair of mooches and it pisses me off”), and (b) keep changing the subject if either of them seems to want to harp on it. Under no circumstances should you tell the truth about how you feel (the truth is so overrated in situations like this) or allow them to piss you off. Just “I’m trying to keep better track of my money, [change subject].” Rinse, lather, repeat.

28

Man up and speak up.

29

I’d also chalk it up as a cost of doing business. It is the same thing as being in an office when you have your arm twisted to buy shit for co-workers kids.

30

[QUOTE=dalej42]
your arm twisted to buy shit for co-workers kids.
[/QUOTE]

Which I also do, and get steamed.

Y’know, I’ve been thinking about doing a 360 on them.

Once I accept that it’s really not the 100 bucks a year (max) this is costing me, and that I DO have other friends I would (and do) choose to spend my time with after work, friends who are, you know, respectful and helpful and understanding and, well, you know, friendly, and that I need to maintain a relationship with these guys for business purposes, instead of resenting their maddening practices, I’ll go them one further.

I think, if I go out to dinner with them again, next time, I’m going to INSIST on picking up the entire bill–“Your money is no good here, you guys have been so helpful to me over the years, I’d never be where I am today if it weren’t for the two of you, this is the least I can do to show my appreciation, you always have my back at work,” etc. almost to the pointing of making them nauseated. (To an extent, as **Plynck ** points out, it is all true in a narrow but very real sense.)

If they take me up on my offer, which is entirely possible, I’ll at least get some credit for generosity, and I won’t resent it since it would be a simple business expense: I need to wine and dine these guys in all but quid-pro-quo acknowledgment of what they’ve done and will do for my career. I can live with that, much more than I can live with having infuriating friends who treat me shabbily.

I hope this doesn’t seem like spinning my wheels, but this conversation (in the Pit) is really helping me to see this in perspective, for what it really is.

31

Seems like that would made everyone happy. Just a good, healthy S&M relationship.

32

Contrariwise, next time you go out with them, don’t eat the entire day before, so you’re good and hungry. Go in order an appetizer, then soup, the most expensive thing on the menu, plus a billion drinks, and dessert. Consume flagrantly more than the amount of food and drink that you know they’ll order, and then insist on splitting the bill evenly three ways. If they protest, ask them if they are old ladies. You know, turn the tables on them. That could be fun. Do that the next 5-6 times you go out, you may find they’ve adjusted their attitude towards how the bill is paid.

33

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Contrariwise, next time you go out with them, don’t eat the entire day before, so you’re good and hungry. Go in order an appetizer, then soup, the most expensive thing on the menu, plus a billion drinks, and dessert. Consume flagrantly more than the amount of food and drink that you know they’ll order, and then insist on splitting the bill evenly three ways. If they protest, ask them if they are old ladies. You know, turn the tables on them. That could be fun. Do that the next 5-6 times you go out, you may find they’ve adjusted their attitude towards how the bill is paid.
[/QUOTE]

You crack me up. I’d probably laugh so hard during that meal I’d puke it all up by the third course. (If I’d even get that far, after living on salad and wheat germ for the past six weeks.)

34

The internal dialogue of your friends is such that they have justified it. You may feel robbed but they have found a way to make it alright. If you make a point of it ,they will feel offended and wronged.
Either take your lumplets or quit going out wit them. Confrontation will result in an ugly encounter and you will be the bad guy.

35

[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber]
You crack me up. I’d probably laugh so hard during that meal I’d puke it all up by the third course. (If I’d even get that far, after living on salad and wheat germ for the past six weeks.)
[/QUOTE]

The way I see it, weeks of wheat germ and rabbit food + eons of being taken advantage of = perfect excuse to order the most extravagant dinner in history and make them pay more than their share. Passive aggressive? Yes, but filling.

36

[QUOTE=Rubystreak]
Contrariwise, next time you go out with them, don’t eat the entire day before, so you’re good and hungry. Go in order an appetizer, then soup, the most expensive thing on the menu, plus a billion drinks, and dessert. Consume flagrantly more than the amount of food and drink that you know they’ll order, and then insist on splitting the bill evenly three ways. If they protest, ask them if they are old ladies. You know, turn the tables on them. That could be fun. Do that the next 5-6 times you go out, you may find they’ve adjusted their attitude towards how the bill is paid.
[/QUOTE]

Make sure to ask about and order 2 or 3 bottles of the priciest wine on the menu.

But that other idea you have, OP, about loudly insising you’ll pay for the whole tab? That’s a BAD idea – really, really bad. It won’t even phase them. They won’t get the irony – or they won’t admit to it, at least. You will simply go from paying more than your share to paying everything, and we’ll see another Pit thread a few months down the line.

37

This is horrible but all though this thread I imagined you going out to dinner with these guys. Maybe you can imagine them as that now instead of “jerks from work.” hehe

38

I like Rubystreak’s idea. Turns the tables on them quite nicely.

39

[QUOTE=mswas]
One of my best friends for years has been something like this. He always wants to leave the absolute minimum for the tip regardless of the quality of service. I worked it out with him ultimately but it took years. Still he’s inattentive to basic social cues and the other day I unreasonably blew up at him, immediately apologized when I calmed down, then a couple of days later he wanted to get back into it and go the rounds. So I just cut off all communication with him. He thinks I need to come to my senses, and is just blissfully ignorant of how obnoxious his day to day behavior is. So every time I think about calling him to settle stuff I just think about how it’ll probably be me eating my hat and apologizing again while getting nothing in return. So at this point I simply don’t want to talk to him, and each day that goes by my desire not to talk to him has not abated one iota. So yeah, if people are this casually clueless or contemptuous of your feelings, just remove yourself from their company.
[/QUOTE]

I’m kind of curious about this. You say you are the one who acted unreasonably. Then rather than discuss it (or any other issues) you decided to end the whole relationship. Is that right, or was that just the trigger event or something?

40

Next time bring cash, specifically a bunch of singles, and be the first to pick up the bill. Figure out exactly your share and place it in the thingy they always use to bring the bill to the table (you know the thingy I am talking about…it is plastic and folds in half with a little pocket for a credit card.) Then pass the bill over and let the other two bicker over how to split the rest of the tab.