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A friend left their job because they were asked to do some unethical things from their boss and decided they didn’t want to work in such a situation. The last straw was when the boss asked them to give preferential treatment to a client based on a conflict-of-interest with their family. Afterwards the boss resigned after a rather public ethical breach that everyone that my friend would interview with knows about. Now normally it is the kiss of death to talk poorly about your old boss/company but in this case would it be appropriate to explain the true reason about why he left his previous company?
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Mrs Cad found a job in her chosen field. It is extremely difficult to break into that field even with a degree in favor of people with very specific experience she doesn’t have. She didn’t apply for it because she thought that it would look bad applying for a new job 3 months after getting her current job and since she wouldn’t get hired because of that, it could only hurt her current job if they were contacted. What do you all think?
IANAHRD (Human Resources Director) but I’ve interviewed and hired a lot of people.
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“It was not a good fit for me.” Then provide a carefully phrased answer in terms of his own work preferences and ethics. "I am not willing to ______describe what he was asked to do here _____ and it’s very important to me to work in an ethical environment. Then turn it around on them. "What would happen in this company if I had an ethical concern? Who would I go to? Could I expect hiring manager’s name here to support my decision? Without openly saying that this occurred at the previous job. Put them in the position of convincing him that they are good enough for him. (Also, don’t overestimate what other people know. HR especially tend to be clueless about what is happening at other companies.
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She should go for it, but make it clear that they should not contact her current employer. It will be hard to get a job without a current reference, but unless she has a colleague who is an absolute vault, she shouldn’t let current job know she is looking. There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling NEWCO that she is hoping to find something more in her field, but that she is also happy in her current job and will keep it until such a time. . .
hth!
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If you leave a job over ethics concerns w/o having another one & I were interviewing you, I might hire you on the spot, maybe *even *if you weren’t qualified. I can teach you a position easier than I can teach you ethics. He’s demonstrated he’s a principled person, to his financial detriment. If he states it the right way, it’s not only not a negative but it is a positive.
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Lots of people don’t want their current employer knowing that they’re looking. Many job apps that I’ve seen even have a box for can/not contact for current employer. If NewCo were to do that against my wishes, well the interview process is a two-way street to see if each party is right for the other one & if they’re breaking my (standard) request when they’re trying to woo me, what are they going to do once I’m there?
I don’t have much to add on the first point, but on the second:
In my experience it is standard practice to answer “no” to the may we contact your current employer, and every company at which I have ever interviewed has understood this and had no issue with it.
ETA
I should note that the only time I have ever seen people answer “yes” is when you have a situation where there is a known end date, such as a contract position or layoffs
Since the OP is asking for opinions, let’s move this to IMHO.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
Agree 100% With this!! As for no. 1:
I think it completely depends on who is hiring you. Someone who may have unethical tendencies would see you speaking of this behavior and a) be worried that you’d speak poorly of their unethical activities and not hire you, or b) see you as a tattle-tale and annoyed that you would speak of it poorly and not hire you.
On the other hand, if someone is ethical and running an honest operation, they are likely to see the morals that you are presenting by not being okay with the activities your previous boss performed, and would likely be more inclined to hire you for this.
So really in the end, if you aren’t wanting to work for someone who can possibly have unethical tendencies, you’re most likely safe to be honest about it in the interview process! As the only reason that this should stop someone from getting hired, or cause the interviewee to see the person as “speaking poorly of co-workers or being unable to get along with managers” is if they themselves have poor ethic and you probably don’t want to work for them anyways.
I would however caution against providing actual details about the situation, as to me this doesn’t make you look good, but more like someone who wants to gossip and bash. I think it would be better to just simply outline the fact that there was unethical activity happening that made you uncomfortable. If they were to press for details, it probably doesn’t hurt to divulge on some, but I just wouldn’t say too much about it unless asked for further details.
On the second question.
Could a person show an id card, badge, or a pay stub to verify employment so they dont have to call the employer?
As long as the supervisor is willing to be a reference for her she can always just say the Job Ended and leave it at that
usually HR just calls and verify start and end dates
I would just say that you are looking for other challenges, and speak of the valuable experience you gained and how you are excited about your new company.
Why? There is some overlap between “people who really are disturbed by actual ethical violations” and “people who frame ordinary business decisions into faux ethical concerns as an excuse to bad mouth their boss.” And while the publicity around your company may allay that fear, it also makes you look a little late to the game. It’s easy to complain about ethical concerns after your company has been caught.
Since this question exists only to screen for red flags, there isn’t any value in giving your life story.
The friend claims he is a principled person who left a job to his financial detriment for ethical reasons. It could just as easily be that this person is a little bit luckier than his boss and jumped ship before the unethical behavior got tied to him. By bringing it up in an interview, all we know for sure is that this interviewee worked for that guy who resigned in disgrace recently. That’s a pretty big negative to me.
In my personal life experience there’s an astronomically disproportionate number of gossipy busy-bodies who want to blab about their awful employer for every person with actual integrity.
Well, I could see this working if you are interviewing with HR and the interviewer hates your new boss-to-be and suspects said boss of wrongdoing, so hires you hoping you will be a whistleblower.
Bragging about how “ethical” you are and insinuating accusations about your old boss would not make me think you were ethical at all, just a potential tattletale whiner who probably is no less crooked than the person he conveniently worked for right up until that person was called out for their crooked ways.
In answer to the first question, the best way to do it is to describe the situation not the people. As an interviewer, I’d actually be impressed if an applicant were gracious or tactful enough to avoid badmouthing somebody that appears to deserve it.
As others have stated, he’ll need to address the concern/possibility that he was comfortable with the unethical behavior and left only when he saw the disaster coming. This will be more or less of a concern depending on what happened when, which he (and, presumably, you) know much better than we do, so trust your judgement there.
as for the second question, 3 months doesn’t say much about a person either way, so her experience prior to this job will be much more meaningful. I wouldn’t feel like I’m missing something by not knowing the past few months. The appearance of “hiding” something is easily countered by a brief explanation of the situation. That she’s only considering leaving her current employer because this is such a great opportunity. Turn a possible negative (is hiding something, or not looking for a long term committment) into a positive (is very passionate about the job and career).
shrug If there was actually an ethical dispute, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with saying so - diplomatically. “They asked me to handle a matter in a way I was not comfortable with” seems okay.
I actually was in a similar position as the person in #1. I had the job from hell with a boss who is the stereotype of my profession, and why we have a bad name. I kept a journal of various happenings and miseries, knowing that years later, I could look back and laugh. My boss asked me to do some things that could have jeopardized my career. (They were both unethical and unnecessary, which frustrated me to no end).
Shortly after I refused, explaining that not only was it unethical and easily provable as fraud, I was let go, being told I was not a “team player.”
Having a profession in a fairly close-knit community, in subsequent interviews, I would get the “tell us about your previous job and why you left” question. Initially, I would hem and haw, saying it wasn’t a good fit and things like that - anything to skirt the question. After a few interviews and conversations with those in my profession, I learned that my boss had a reputation, and I was far from the only person who held a negative view of the man and his actions. It actually served to help me, once I gave details about standing up to him and refusing to follow his commands.
The only drawback was when I would be asked why I didn’t report his behavior to our licensing agency. However, I explained that since the man was known for being vengeful, and had no qualms with forging information or documentation, I was worried that if I took action against him, he would do something to sabotage my career. Everyone to whom I’ve given that response has seemed satisfied with it.
That’s sort of the deal - if he thinks the people he is interviewing with know about the rather public ethical breach of his former boss - then bringing up that you left due to his ethics is a good thing - it isn’t bad mouthing the company - particularly if you bring up positive things about the organization as a whole. The only people who are going to look askance are those that are going to be engaging in questionable practices themselves - and those you don’t want to work for.
Now, I switched jobs due to being sexually harassed and assaulted by my boss…I don’t want to get into the details in an interview, nor do I want to leave them with the impression that I made a stink over a few off color jokes - so I leave it alone. I simply say “it wasn’t a good fit.” (Its so long ago now that the job has fallen off my resume).
I learned if you have chemistry with the interviewer, they won’t give a sh*t why you left your last job
funny, I just had a screening interview that went very well. But I know I didn’t get the job (its just a contract) - because the screener is not the decision maker. The decision maker is ex-military. Who is hiring a contractor to work with a manager of his who is ex-military. And the other candidate for the job is not a female liberal like me, but wait for it…ex-military. Frankly, from what I got from the initial interviewer (who I did hit it off with) I’m not getting hired unless I can suddenly come up with discharge papers (and maybe a penis, but discharge papers would DEFINITELY help, its my suspicion that a penis would also be useful).
Regarding the first situation, I would not trash the employer or the old boss unless the interviewer prompted it by asking lots of pointed questions about why I left. Even then, I would make it seem like the company was in dire straits from their own legal issues, and that I simply left before they hit because the writing was on the wall that there would be layoffs without trying to place blame on anyone. If you trash your old employer to me, it makes me wonder if you will trash my company to someone else. It also may reflect badly on you. For example, two weeks ago, I was hiring for an engineering position and one of the applicants was a person who previously ran his own defense company, but was now looking for a senior engineering position instead. I asked why, and he could have said anything like “subcontracting opportunities for my company were drying up with defense cutbacks”. Instead, he told us a story about how his business partner had screwed him and stolen $25,000 and that the resulting drama and legal actions caused him financial problems and so he didn’t pay his taxes for a few years so he now wanted to work for someone else. Why would you ever say something like that? I’m sure he felt like he was just being honest, but to me this says “hire me only if you have no other candidates because I make bad choices and might invite this kind of drama into your company too”.
Regarding the second situation, I would say “go for it”, and simply tell them the sensitivity of the situation so they do not try to contact the current employer. Even better if you have a trusted co-worker they can speak to, however.
Your state bar doesn’t allow anonymous complaints?