A Bill to Establish Diplomatic Relations Between the United States of America and Cuba
I know that this is incredibly vague, but let’s not worry about attacking the bill itself. I want info on whether or not it is a good idea to establish relations with Cuba.
I think it would be a good idea.
While Castro will never be our biggest fan, he won’t be around forever. It would be nice to have some goodwill towards America established when his regime comes to an end.
As one of our closer neighbors it would be nice to have relations with Cuba.
I don’t think Cuba poses the threat that it once did, and it may be time to lighten up.
I’d like to get my hands on some Cuban cigars without breaking the law.
Monte Cristo #2s. Hmmm.
This is a tough question.
“Good idea” from whose perspective? For example, I am a frequent traveller to the Dominican Republic. They tend to oppose the US and Cuba normalizing trade relations, because they offer for export pretty much all the same things that Cuba does. Presumably, Cuba would cut into their market share. Cuba’s comparitively high literacy rate might also make Cuba the preferred destination for industrial business development, again at the expense of the DR.
Who is your audience, Pepper?
Bricker:
Good point, whose perspective are we arguing?
I’m arguing my own perspective as a member of the US and a consumer.
From a moral standpoint, I don’t think you can exclude Cuba from the marketplace just so the DR doesn’t have competition.
Competition is what makes capitalism work.
How do we justify repressing the Cuban people (assuming all else is equal) merely to benefit the DRs?
Establishing diplomatic relations would not be done by law for several reasons but the most obvious is that no law is going to make Castro send an ambassador if he doesn’t care. So my first objection to the law is that it makes no sense and that even if it did it may be unconstitutional, this being the sphere of the executive.
Let us suppose, the question is simply “is it a good idea to restore diplomatic relations with Cuba?” (and forget about phrasing it as a bill). The answer is that restoring diplomatic ties with Cuba per se would change nothing except the fact that it might facilitate better relations with them but the sticky points with Cuba would not be resolved by this.
There have been several other threads discussing relations with Cuba, the embargo, Elian, etc so I won’t get into that.
A bunch of high school age kids at a speech tourny.
I would argue this from the standpoint of why not.
We have relations with china, so why not cuba?
I’ve often wondered the same thing!
Our officials in office are still living in the days when we had to defend our country with guns, armies, and high explosives–today, all the nukes and bombs are mostly for show and for the ‘fear effect’. Our main weapon with which we secure our country is corporations and economics. (at least in my opinion).
Why not start up more business with Cuba? They’re close by–and they have beneficial things to offer. Besides–if they act up, can’t the USA get NASA or the Navy to tow their little island out to the antarctic, or something? 
Okay–that was probably a pretty mean thing to say–just trying to think of our country’s diplomatic priorities in a more lighthearted view.
-Ashley
Having lived in Canada for a few years and having talked to people from other countries about this, I think I can safely say that the U.S.'s current policy toward Cuba is an embarrassment to this country in the eyes of much of the rest of the world.
They pretty much think we are mentally deranged on the subject…like clinically paranoid or something. Why else would we treat one small harmless country whose government we may not particularly like so much differently from other countries who have as bad or worse governments from any sort of human rights perspective?
As near as I can figure it, the answers are twofold: (1) There are a lot of Cuban Americans living in a politically important state, many of whom don’t like Castro for some noble reasons (e.g., they would like to see more civil liberties there)and others who are even more virulently anti-Castro for less-noble reasons (e.g., they were the really rich cronies of the old Batista regime and they are pissed that their ill-gotten gains were confiscated when Castro came to power). The impression I get is that the latter group has been more effective in wielding its political clout than the more moderate former. (2) The U.S. is not used to having any sort of enemies nearby and is therefore irrationally worried about a nation that could not possibly threaten it, at least now that the Soviet Union is gone.
Clearly, this is something we should get over. The one remaining superpower in the world should not be basing its foreign policy on a combination of clinical neurosis and political pandering.
I think one could also make the argument that our current policy toward Cuba has been counterproductive in achieving any of our stated goals (e.g., of making Cuba more democratic or market-oriented economically). One wonders if Castro would even still be in power if not for the U.S. economic and political embargo.
There have been several threads in the past discussing this so it may be useful to go back to them rather than repeat ourselves too much.
In any case, there is one point that you are missing and that is that Castro expropriated without compensation a lot of property owned by US citizens and corporations and the USA is still suing for reparations.
I believe Cuba has come to agreements with other countries to compensate for their property which was taken but the amounts are probably very small compared to what they would have to pay the USA. besides, how would that look in the eyes of Cubans? I do not thing Fidel would be willing to pay even if he had the money.
Or it could be said that Castro took back what was stolen from the people by the supporters of Batista and the multi-nationals. If the Batistas want their land back, I say go have them fight on the hills and jungles of Cuba like Castro did back in 1958. Of course, they probably would not survive after one week.
Capacitor, I do not know if you have been to Cuba or know anything about it. I have been to Cuba, I have Cuban relatives and friends and I am relatively well informed of recent Cuban history.
Seeing how the people who live under communism do not believe in it I find it very refreshing that the most vocal supporters of the system are people like you who have never “enjoyed” it and have no intention of doing so, preferring instead to live under the wicked and evil capitalist system.
But since this is an academic exercise I would find it amusing if pepperlandgirl would care to defend that position in her thesis: that communism just returned to the people what was justly theirs. Of course, if that were true, it would follow that the USA should also embrace such an equitable system.
Maybe you can convince her that this is the correct position to take.
The only countries in the world than still maintain a strict communist system are Cuba and North Korea and they also happen to be the most backwards and represive places on earth. Maybe it is just a coincidence.
I want to point out I am taking no position on the issue of whether it is better to renew relations with Cuba or not.
Yup. Living in Europe, I get this a lot: “You’re American? Can I ask you a question then. What the **** is your problem with Cuba?”
I suspect much of the reason we still have sanctions against the country comes down to spite, and wanting to pretend we can still do Castro some kind of damage. Removing the sanctions would be tantamount to acknowledging our failure to remove him from power.
I have had a few conversations with Cuban-Americans in the Miami area who have relatives and emotional ties to Cuba. If what I am told about the lack of food, medicine and basic health care equipment is true, we should drop the sanctions for humanitarian reasons.
Sailor is correct, Castro would not compensate the U.S. for nationalized businesses if he could. I would expect that those losses have long been written off and should therefore be forgotten. The current generation of Cubans is no more responsible for those losses than I am for anything my ancestors might have done.
I suspect that many of the most rabid anti-Castroites fully expect to be able to return to Cuba, regain their property and resume their positions of power and prestige the moment he is out of the picture. I somehow doubt that this will happen, but one never knows.
The USA is suing (of course) for the property taken from US nationals and corporations, not for that taken from Cuban nationals.
Whether those claims should be considered dead is purely a matter of opinion. There would be strong reasons for doing that. OTOH, I believe all eastern block countries have compensated for property taken by the communist governments when they took over after WWII. I believe even Russia is considering claims of property taken almost a century ago.
The USA has compensated for claims older than those against Castro (Japanese-Americans interned during WWII, claims of the Indian tribes, etc) not to mention many people believe in giving blacks compensation for thing that happened more than 150 years ago.
So, how long should claims be good for? I dunno, it’s a matter of opinion. But I guess one good reason for maintaining your claim is if the same thiefs who took your stuff are the ones that still have it (as is the case in Cuba). I think if Castro would have been replaced and there was some evolution in the Cuba government it would make things easier.
I really maintain no position on this one way or the other. I can see both sides of the argument.
>> If what I am told about the lack of food, medicine and basic health care equipment is true, we should drop the sanctions for humanitarian reasons.
I have been there and I can tell you it is true and worse than you can imagine. What you should also know is that the USA is the biggest donor (Ok, individuals from the USA) of medicines and cash to CUBA. There is no embargo for Cubans to help their relatives on humanitarian things.
The problem is that the Cuban economy lives from charity and the solution is not more charity, it is to make it productive which cannot be done with this government.
Anything more you give them just goes to support the government, not to help the people.