I still don’t see what Richards’ situation in India has to do with the official being rightfully arrested. Seriously, how stupid do you have to be to deliberately commit a felony after having been told not to by the host country?
Hahah. I finally get it. Nice. Good show. You had me going for a little bit there.
That wasn’t exactly clarifying.
Oh well, if you have a random, irrelevant anecdote, well then… :rolleyes:
Yes, a housewife with a drunk for a husband, out spending money the family doesn’t have and very likely racking up debts is totally a relevant example.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Um…no. Bullshit. Christ, have you ever even *been *to India? And forget anecdotal evidence, look at the numbers: INR 10K a month would be over 40% above the minimum daily wage rate. If the family was making 30k, they’d be making over three times the average total monthly spending for the average, *five-*person family in Dehli.
Here’s the cost of living index numbers for Dehli, bench-marked to New York City = 100:
CPI: 30
Groceries: 30
Restaurants: 20
So: Stay in India, where they have friends and family and can easily afford the cost of living plus savings, or move to NY where the cost of living is 3-5 times higher and you’re a virtual slave because you can’t afford to leave the house.
Hmmm.
The tit for tat in the consul affair has uncovered that Indian tax laws were being systematically subverted by the American embassy school in New Delhi.
From a source you would normally trust -
What I find particularly galling, apart from the attempt at cheating a developing country out of tax revenue, is the underhanded attempt by the NYT at justifying these actions by hinting that tax evasion is widespread in India. Why the fuck is that relevant to the American Embassy School’s actions?
Also, the US embassy has released a statement saying that it doesn’t run the school and so is not responsible. So - the school is on American embassy land, it has three members on its board appointed directly by the US ambassador, the only reason it has any tax exemptions at all is that it is the American embassy’s school, and suddenly the US embassy is not responsible for its actions?
I hope this will help tone down the holier than thou attitude of some of the posts made here.
India’s really better off despite the violations, though, because the alternative is to not have the spouse earn any income at all. Ultimately, there’s more money going into the Indian economy through this ruse than there would be if they followed all the applicable laws.
Sounds pretty fucking stupid, doesn’t it?
Oh yeah, before I forget: any US nationals who are evading Indian taxes should be prosecuted the same way Indian nationals are.
According to this, it’s not run by the U.S.
It was not within Devyani’s domain to provide the maid her regular passport. The regular passport is taken into possession by the government of India when they issue an official passport and can be obtained only after the person returns from the official trip and surrenders the official passport.
The maid was unwilling to return back to India and wanted her regular passport in the US itself. This of course was not possible and this fraudulent allegation that Devyani confiscated her passport was included in the joke of an indictment filed by that pretender Bharara.
The maid was provided free food, home, clothing, medicine, health insurance, entertainment etc - practically all expenses were met.
So, The free stuff plus $600 was a good deal as per me, but I do not mind her arrest as -
- she has a well to do american husband, household income is high.
- two little children who require a considerable amount of looking after
- she dint come back to india on warnings of an imminent action from as early as sept. because of her american family. instead, she got indian courts to pass orders which are inapplicable in the US
It appears that the attitude is that this is just not that big a deal. After all, they’re just servants.
Regards,
Shodan
Is anyone going to point out that it is better for there to be an American Embassy School in Delhi, regardless of how many laws it is evading, than for there not to be one at all?
I’m not.
IMHO in regards to the contract for the maid; saying I’m only screwing her a little bit but that’s ok because she’d be totally fucked if I wasn’t is not a valid reason to break the law.
But the real reason I’m here. What the fuck is the legal definition of an absconder? 16 pages and I’m still curious.
^ Maid and her husband have non-bailable arrest warrant against them in India -
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-12-20/india/45416515_1_delhi-police-arrest-philip
Dictionary definition of absconder -
People in India found the arrest unacceptable as they did not know the full scenario. I wasn’t aware for most of this thread.
People here would have then looked at the financial status of the diplomat’s family and the nature/amount of work that the maid would be doing.
Say there is a rich Indian guy in Mumbai, having free govt. house, 2 little children and a wife who is a consul general of Congo. She brings full-time maid for 7 days a week from congo at Rs 2500/- per month.(minimum legal pay is Rs. 7000)
India says there’s gonna be action on the Consul General, so she presents Congo court orders saying that the maid cant file a case in india.
Indians themselves would not mind the arrest of such a consul general.
I don’t think it is just that, I think it is a combo of two things.
1.Just the word servants has negative connotations in America, the vast majority of non wealthy Americans are uncomfortable with the very notion of domestic servants. This is probably related to slavery in the USA, this negative connotation doesn’t exist in India or other countries where even lower middle class families can have a servant. So right off the bat this isn’t sitting well.
2.Different cultural norms on lying on forms and tax evasion, coming from somewhere where everyone does it it can make the stern serious tone in the USA look silly. Even if you don’t like it in principal it is still a simple fact of life. It can make it seem like someone on a moral high horse was looking for laughable technicalities to go after someone.
I don’t like corruption or bribery, but living somewhere where it is a simple fact of life to do ANYTHING I’d probably :rolleyes: when some beat cop in the USA is arrested for accepting a candy bar or something. And if the prosecutor started making grand pronouncements about how serious it is…well it no longer seems serious.
*I’m trying to explain the reaction some people have had, not defend it or endorse it. I don’t like or endorse corruption and bribery either, just explaining how living with it as a daily reality has changed me.
It is very relevant, if you live in India you must adapt to Indian society and culture and work within it. Only a madman would avoid adapting and integrating, when in Rome.
Some laws are unfair in many cases. Laws are not fair all the time. Indians and employees from many countries actually still work at <$9.75 per hour. At $9.75 per hr, they will simply become affordable for their countries. For ex., embassy and consular staff, drivers etc.
Workers typically save money when working in USA and send it to India.
Visa fraud in itself is not a reason enough for arrest imo since she had some special privileges due to her post but when one looks at overall scenario that I’ve tried to give in last few posts, Devyani comes across as wrong(immoral and exploitative) and so we do not mind the arrest.
^mistake in 1st para -
*unaffordable
truthSeeker2 - I have had a very strong disagreement with you for most of this thread, but I commend you for being one of the few people on this board (or the Internet!) who will readily acknowledge that their opinion has changed with new evidence. I think that is admirable.
I agree with you for the most part, American culture encourages moral grandstanding on certain issues and right now human trafficking is a hot issue. American media is also full of depictions of slimy foreigners getting off on diplomatic immunity, nearly any TV show including superhero ones have featured this plot. And like I said servant has a negative connotation in the USA. This more than explains everything.
My opinion is that the USA should have expelled Devyani and made it clear to the Indian foreign service that this would no longer be tolerated. But Americans are often morally righteous, and this pushed a lot of cultural buttons.
Is that common definition of absonder also a legal definition? Can a person be charged with Abscondation or being a fugitive? Could this be similar to posting bail and not showing up for court?
Truthseeker2, what was it that changed your mind? I’ve read no new evidence in posts here or in the news, do you have access to more information?
I have not read anything that says the consul knowingly or purposefully filed this paperwork alone. I would think there was an HR department that handled details such as wages and benefits. Was the maid hired directly by the consul?
Could the consul be a pawn in a play between the governments?
In very broad strokes:
The US tells India to knock this off, India continues because this is how it’s always been and the US uses this instance to show that the US is being serious?