U.S. border patrol

[Euphonious_Polemic]

@Little_Nemo

A lot of non-Canadians try to illegally enter the United States from Canada because that border is less heavily guarded.

It seems that the traffic in illegal immigrants is two-way

Amherstburg police said this is the second time this summer where officers have apprehended individuals trying to illegally enter Canada by boat near the community. Two months ago, they picked up a pair of Albanian nationals.

The community is a target for illegal entry because it is only a four-minute boat ride from the U.S.

[Acsenray]

@suranyi

I didn’t say I thought it was right, I said that it exists, so it’s nothing new. I was making a comment about the New York Times sudden interest in this phenomenon, not about the correctness of the border patrol stations themselves.

And what is the import about this observation? That if a problem is not discovered from the beginning that it should never be reported?

[Eva_Luna]

@Euphonious_Polemic

What do the border patrols in upstate New York hope to find, anyway? Legions of snowbacks sneaking in to take the lumberjacking jobs that nobody wants? People saying “oh sure I’m a citizen of the US, eh?” Followed by “Take off ya hoser, I was just kidding eh”

Will they be confiscating touques?

Maybe they can trick people by wearing Tim Hortons uniforms and inviting commuters on the train to roll up the rim.

“Is that a Timbit in your pants, or should I just feel sorry for you?”

Lots of non-Canadians find it easier to get visitor visas to Canada than to the U.S. During the breakup of Yugoslavia, I was working in Immigration Court, and the Chicago court also operated the court in Detroit. We had lots of Kosovar Albanians who were caught trying to cross the border near Detroit.

[suranyi]

@acsenray

@suranyi

I didn’t say I thought it was right, I said that it exists, so it’s nothing new. I was making a comment about the New York Times sudden interest in this phenomenon, not about the correctness of the border patrol stations themselves.

And what is the import about this observation? That if a problem is not discovered from the beginning that it should never be reported?

Certainly not. Whatever gave you that idea? I was just reporting a fact – the border station on I-5 exists, and has been there for decades. So do some other ones near the Mexican border. I was surprised that the NYT didn’t mention it – they made it seem like internal border checks was a new thing.

[Mr_Smashy]

You want to let in the [Terrance and Phillips](Terrance and Phillips) of the world? Fine with me, as I try to figure out why you hate America.

In all seriousness, this doesn’t seem like that much of a big deal. CBP grunts are just trying to do their job. I would think, from a PC standpoint, that checking the northern border would be welcomed by this board; actually looking for Mohommed and Co instead of Senior Wetback just trying to make a few bucks mowing lawns to send back home to his family in Guatamala.

[Mr_Smashy]

(missed the edit window… obviously I need to proofread the links I put up…

[Spoons]

@Eva_Luna

Lots of non-Canadians find it easier to get visitor visas to Canada than to the U.S. During the breakup of Yugoslavia, I was working in Immigration Court, and the Chicago court also operated the court in Detroit. We had lots of Kosovar Albanians who were caught trying to cross the border near Detroit.

Maybe things have been tightened since. The process looks fairly complicated, and could prove to be expensive to some–see the steps in the process here. The list of countries whose nationals require visas to visit Canada looks much longer than those whose nationals don’t (see it here). And we have our own problems with illegal immigrants, refugee claimants whose claims must be vetted, and potential terrorists–a recent story is here.

[Eva_Luna]

@Spoons

@Eva_Luna

Lots of non-Canadians find it easier to get visitor visas to Canada than to the U.S. During the breakup of Yugoslavia, I was working in Immigration Court, and the Chicago court also operated the court in Detroit. We had lots of Kosovar Albanians who were caught trying to cross the border near Detroit.

Maybe things have been tightened since. The process looks fairly complicated, and could prove to be expensive to some–see the steps in the process here. The list of countries whose nationals require visas to visit Canada looks much longer than those whose nationals don’t (see it here). And we have our own problems with illegal immigrants, refugee claimants whose claims must be vetted, and potential terrorists–a recent story is here.

All true, but also, historically Canada has been kinder to some kinds of asylum applicants than the U.S. has. But say you are, for example, a former Yugoslav who couldn’t get asylum in the U.S., but would really like to be here because you have a ton of family members here. You might get asylum in Canada, and then try to sneak over the border to the U.S.

[Stooge]

@bubba_jr

And then I get to go through the facial recognition cameras on my way home.

Just out of curiosity, where do you go through these cameras? Are they marked or something?

[Algher]

I wish they would take the checkpoint that is NORTH of San Diego (Border Patrol California motto - “San Diego is lost, let’s just try to protect Orange County now”) and drop one in every Red State on a major highway.

I say this as a Registered Republican.

Let’s put one between Oklahoma City and Tulsa on I44. Make every single car stop to be looked at for suspicious characters. Then lets see how my old Okie friends feel about the necessary work to stop all illegals.

Let’s drop a few more on I40 and I10 through Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and Oklahoma.

Then a few more in other states. Let them taste the joy of stopping to talk to Border Patrol just because you are driving BETWEEN TWO AMERICAN CITIES.

THEN, and maybe then, my right wing comrades will perhaps see that clamping down on illegals requires giving up a certain amount of personal freedom, and giving more power to the Feds. MAYBE they will then determine that this is not worth the loss of freedom of movement, and that this problem should be looked at another way.

But I doubt it.

[pericynthion]

@bubba_jr

{not just bending over and taking it}

Thank you! More people should do the same.

[MEBuckner]

I’ve never really understood how these internal checkpoints are actually supposed to accomplish anything (given the realities of American constitutional freedoms)–this is actually something I’ve pointed out a couple of times before.

So, they stop you at one of these checkpoints, not at the border, but inside the border, while travelling from Point A, USA to Point B, USA. (I’ve actually been through one myself, once.) They ask you “So, you an American citizen, or what?” Now, if the answer is “No” but you’re legit–not an illegal alien–I guess the Border Patrol can legitimately ask to see your documentation. If you’re a tourist, they can ask to see your passport; and I believe permanent residents are required to carry their “green cards” with them.

But suppose you just say “Yes” to the question? Granted, lots of criminals are pretty stupid, but still, crooks (including drug smugglers and “coyotes” and the like) presumably know how to lie. Because, in America, how far can a federal law enforcement agent go with this, anyway? He asks, “American citizen?”; you say “Yes” (or “Si, senor” or “Da, tovarisch” or whatever smart-ass answer you feel like) and the border cop doesn’t believe you…then what? It’s not like he can ship you off to federal prison or Gitmo unless and until you produce your birth certificate (the real one, none of those fakey “certificates of live birth”)…right?

Suppose he asks if he can search your car (or your windowless van with the “Legalize Marijuana” bumper sticker) and you say “Nope. Am I free to go?” Then what?

I guess these “checkpoints” are basically kind of Darwinian mechanisms for making smarter smugglers. “Remember, kids, ‘Just Say No’ when the cop asks if he can search your car! (And ‘Yes’ if he asks if you’re an American citizen!)”

[user_hostile]

MEBuckner brings up a good point. I know I’m required to provide ID. But at on of these checkpoints, I was asked, “Are all the occupants of this car American citizens?” I wonder now if I could decline to answer. Of course, the agents would probably tell me to pull over. It’s one thing when your crossing physically into the United States, but at 100 miles? This seems so anti-Constitutional.

[bubba_jr]

@user_hostile

MEBuckner brings up a good point. I know I’m required to provide ID. But at on of these checkpoints, I was asked, “Are all the occupants of this car American citizens?” I wonder now if I could decline to answer. Of course, the agents would probably tell me to pull over. It’s one thing when your crossing physically into the United States, but at 100 miles? This seems so anti-Constitutional.

Technically, based on Martinez vs Fuentes or something like that the internal checkpoints are secondary border entry checkpoints. There is a 3 point test, I remember that they have to have reason that you have just crossed an international border, and they have to have reason that you and your luggage have not been altered since you crossed the border. I don’t remember what the 3rd point is, but its even more obscure. If you pass all three sniff tests, than they can treat you as if you are just crossing the border.

I’ve also read that the point of the internal checkpoints so far from the border is to force all the illegal stuff out around, yet close to the checkpoints, which makes it easier to catch. I guess that makes sense, if they weren’t all hanging out barbecuing.

As for the questions, technically you don’t have to answer a single one. When they ask if you are a citizen, you can tell them to go suck your big hairy grapes. If you are an American citizen traveling in the US you are not required to carry proof of citizenship. As a New Mexican, my license doesn’t even prove I’m a citizen or a legal resident. Of course, 85% of the time just saying yes gets you through quick and easy even though you may have been sitting in line for 20 minutes.

If they want to look in your trunk, tell them NO. They’ve jumped up in the bed of my truck and I’ve told them to get the fuck out. If they want you to pull over for a secondary inspection tell them no, and ask “under what suspicion?” and ask for a supervisor. If they won’t get a supervisor, make a big loud scene and there will be a supervisor there REALLY fast(he’s inside playing minesweeper).

Fun stuff to tell them.

Q: Where you going:
A: [point forward] thataway.
A: As far as my free american ass feels like taking me.

Q: Where you coming from.
A: [point backward] thataway.
A: [lean out window, point backwards] and exclaim “RIGHT THERE, YOU JUST SAW ME PULL IN!!!”

Q: American citizen?
A: North American or South American???

Q: [any question]
A: None of your damn business.

Q: ANSWER MY QUESTION you’re holding up traffic.
A: No sir, I’m not, you are, I’m perfectly willing to drive away right now.

You have far far more rights than you do in a typical traffic stop. You can be a complete jackass, and they can’t really do a damn thing.

I do however find that if you pull up, look them in the eye and greet them nicely, they know you aren’t hiding anything and they let you fly on through. If you go in pissed off to begin with, you’re going to leave even more pissed off.

[Nava]

@Nars_Glinley

The Border Patrol has been operating inland checkpoints for years in Texas and probably other states as well but the ones in Texas are the only ones that I have personal knowledge of. They make you stop and ask if you are an American citizen. I’ve never been asked for identification but I’m white as Wonder bread.

In my case and in 1997, the Border Patrol man about 60 miles from the Río stuck his head in the car saying “documents please”, took one look at my American redheaded friend and at this Spanish-from-Spain chick and said “oh, you’re American, go on”.

Then again, this was in the same trip where his coworkers at the border didn’t want to stamp my passport or give me the documents I needed to fill on grounds of “you’re American”. “Actually I’m not, see my passport? It’s brown! Excuse me, can you please look at my passport? Look, brown! Can I have those forms now please?”