So our A/C is 11 or 12 years old, long out of warranty. We have it checked annually, and today they’re saying that it’s really on its last legs (one device showed a reading way up in the “red” zone, the inside compressor coils are rusted, etc.) - replacing the individual failing parts would cost nearly as much as a new unit but with a much shorter warranty.
Is it really reasonable that a system that “young” would be failing so fast?
We’re in a 2400 square foot house. Is 6700 for the lowest efficiency system (14 SEER) reasonable? A 17-SEER unit would be about 2400 more, would that be at all worth it? Our electric costs are under 300 dollars in the summer; our current unit is 10 SEER.
Hard to say, depends on the unit and what sort of life it’s had. Some last 20 years with minimal repair. If I was you I would put my eyes on the rusty coils or at least get a second opinion.
One piece of advice I’ve heard is to get an estimate from a general contractor, they install heat pumps in houses and may be cheaper than HVAC companies.
11-12 is not all that young. It goes back past two or three fairly big steps in efficiency, and without minor maintenance and checking each year, things like corrosion will eat away at the coils and pressure lines. Your (apparently) light usage probably contributes to long-term problems over shorter-term/wearout issues. I’d say you’ve gotten right in the expected lifespan, all things considered.
Which doesn’t make the hassle and expense any tastier.
Efficiency and cost are a simple matter of economics and preference. Work out your likely running costs per year for each SEER level, work out ROI on the costs, and decide if you’ll be there long enough to see return of the extra cost. If not, will it add a little to sales value? Or will you feel better paying a little more to reduce your carbon footprint?
In any case, I’d recommend getting a current evaluation of brands and models. Each time I’ve had a unit replaced, HVAC guys I trusted had a current selection they preferred for quality and longevity (and not profit or convenience). Buy the best unit you can afford that meets the other specs and preferences. A second-rate brand or model with higher efficiency or lower cost is a poor choice for what’s basically a “residential capital” purchase.
ETA: Check with your utility or state power commission. There are often incentives for choosing higher-efficiency units, sometimes ones that actually put a higher-SEER unit cheaper than a less-efficient one. I paid $1200 more for a 14-SEER unit about ten years ago, and got a $2k rebate.
ETA2: I’ve had good HVAC guys tell me flat out that major repairs to units over about 8-10 years old is all but wasted. The ROI tends to suck.
Our original heater and AC using were over 15 years old when we had to replace the compressor in 1992. We replaced the entire system in 2009 and it’s still going strong. I don’t remember the SEER but it was up there.
Our summer electrical bill was around $200 before the new system and about $140 now. The house is 1900 sq ft. Of course the amount of kilowatt hours would give a better comparison than cost as prices are different in other places. Still it seems that you are paying quite a bit more than I’d expect for a house that size.
Do you live near salt water? That can cause corrosion.
How well insulated it your place? How are the windows? Do you have a lot of kids opening and closing external doors? My place is well insulated; windows are good; and we are empty-nesters. We do have a doggie door which Max uses quite often to go outside. we live near St. Louis and the temps can hit 100°F this time of year.
I bet there’s an on-line calculator to tell you the difference between the 14 SEER and 17 SEER as far as return on investment and how long it would take you to make back the extra $2,600. The good news is if the existing unit is worn out, it probably isn’t anywhere near 10 SEER so either the 14 or 17 could lower your utility bills.
I can tell you our electric bill dropped nearly in half when we replaced our AC unit for a more efficient one. This is one place you don’t want to skimp.
What do you mean the coils are “rusted”? The coils are typically copper or aluminum, which shouldn’t rust.
Look into just replacing the failing components of the system. It could be just that the outside compressor is going bad. Also, see if you can wait until after summer to get it fixed. You might be able to get a better price when demand isn’t as high. Get several bids.
I recently had the outside compressor and inside coil replaced and it cost $3500. I did not replace the whole system in the attic. They just swapped out the AC coil part and left the existing blower and heater.
I think that’s what the OP and most of us are talking about. You can usually replace just the evaporator in the HVAC stack, the outside compressor/coil unit, and pressure-test the lines without changing anything else. It’s a good time to clean and evaluate the blower, motor and furnace, but they need not be replaced.
Kind of a pointless response not meant to be a “Oh poor you, I got it so much worse!” type of response but… consider yourself lucky. We purchased at new home built around 1900 last June. It has a boiler and radiators and zero ductwork through-out the house. I’m currently gathering estimates from HVAC providers to get air conditioning into the 2nd floor of the home which is approximately 1500 square feet (total square footage including all 3 floors is 4800). Estimates so far are ranging from $17K to $24K. I’d jump up and down and do a jig if I got an estimate in the $6K range.
Now, carry on with your conversations and don’t mind me sitting in the corner crying…
You’re looking at the ductless ones, right? My understanding is they’re MUCH cheaper than having ductwork run through old construction, especially old construction.
Yes, looking at solutions using either a mini-split system by Mitsubishi or Unico/SpacePak high-velocity systems. And yes, you are correct that even with these high estimates it would be far cheaper than installing a traditional system and having to gut the house of plaster & lathe walls, running ductwork, and installing new sheetrock. We are coming to understand now why past owners of the property never added a cooling system.
And maybe next year we’ll be able to afford to install a system for the 1st floor. Fortunately for that floor we can use a traditional system and install ductwork from the basement.
I’m still trying to see how an evap. coil (copper tube/pipe) can “rust”.
Can you see any sign of any kind of corrosion?
Get another opinion - one from somebody who has never even heard of whoever you are dealing with.
My foray into HVAC yielded this tidbit: The nameplate on the machine identifies who made the coils and the sheet metal - motors, compressors, manifolds, etc are all stock items and pretty much everybody uses the same parts for common bits.
The idea of having a general contractor look at it sounds good - I am deeply suspicious of HVAC professionals (who are under a great deal of financial stress - their expenses are largely fixed, and there are now DIY A/C units - and the web is convincing more and more people to go the DIY route.
Mine has the Al fins disintegrate on touch on the lower coils close to the ground. Not sure about the copper tubes, I abandoned that system years ago, was much cheaper to buy and run 2 windows units to cool the house then central air, which also created living/sleeping zones which is more savings.
I, too, don’t trust HVAC guys. I’m sure some of them are good, but a lot of them are terrible; they also deliberately keep information from consumers online, so that it’s really hard to figure out who’s telling the truth when you talk to them.
We are in the final stages of building a house. I decided to do the HVAC work myself, everything except the final hook up of the units (so, I did ductwork and electrical connections, but the refrigerant requires a license to purchase, and some specialized equipment that I didn’t want to buy). We looked at mini-splits, which would have been really easy to install, but I was concerned that some of the rooms wouldn’t be as cool as I wanted, so went with a conventional heat pump. (If I had it to do over, I might have gone with the mini-split, honestly.)
When I called around to HVAC guys to have someone hook it up for me, they were total dicks about it. Most refused to even talk to me. I finally found someone willing to do it, but it was ridiculous.
Anyway, I bought the exterior unit and air handler, a goodman, on amazon for about $1300. About an other $400 in ducts and stuff. The house is 2000 sf, but it’s an ICF so unusually efficient. We were able to do a 2.5 ton unit (I’m sure a pro would have oversized it, but it’s working perfectly.)
Google DIY minisplits. There are companies that market to DIY people, which include pre-charged line sets. Even if you’re not the DIY type, a handyman could install them for a lot less than HVAC contractors charge.
I’ve been told by several HVAC guys in different states that anything over 10 years on an air conditioner is a gift. We replaced our entire system in 2006 - when we bought this place, it had old equipment, tho lightly used. (The original owners hardly used a/c and they used portable heaters rather than fire up the furnace.) The difference the new stuff made was amazing, altho adding insulation and updated windows helped, too. We get it all serviced annually, and now that I look at the date, I guess I’d better start saving for a new compressor…
Appreciate that but with the age of the home, the construction of the walls (brick exterior, plaster & lathe interior), the layout of the 2nd floor (central hallway, rooms on all sides of house), having to upgrade electrical panel in the basement, and restrictions from being in a historic neighborhood which govern any changes to the exterior of the home, nothing about the installation will be straight-forward. I’ve had 7 HVAC providers out so far and if I was to paraphrase all of their reactions it would be “Oh this is gonna be a bitch!”. There are just far too many potential gotchas in this one for my first DIY HVAC project.
