…and arming children with cop-killer shooting plastic handguns equiped with bayonet mounts and high capacity magazines.
Yeah I know. What I think upset me also is that I know so many great Americans, and none of them are anything like him. I sincerely hope he is a dying minority. He’s the sort of (non-representative) stereotype of America that is fuelling a lot of this Al Qaeda stuff.
A little bit more of that and you will rile me up enough to take you to the pit. He and his type have NOTHING to do with “this Al Qaeda stuff.” You need to straighten yourself out on that matter real quick. I seem to be tolerating your ignorance without flying an airplane full of people into your home. The only people to blame for 9/11 are the terrorists. The only things fueling them is religous fanaticism and hatred.
Your thinking is along the lines of:
She shouldn’t have been dressed like that, she was asking to be raped.
He deserves what he got, he knows we don’t like blacks dating white girls around here.
Stop blaming the victim.
Please, I really don’t want to get into conflict with you as well! And of course I don’t think that, please don’t twist my words.
How can you even compare having a racist, bigoted attitude to someone dressing a certain way, or an interracial relationship? But even though I hate what he said, I would die to defend his freedom of speech to say it.
But if I was an American, I am sure the attitudes of people like him would make me cringe in shame the same way the attitudes of the BNP and neo-Nazis in the UK make me ashamed.
What’s your beef exactly Freedom?
This is a quote from “the angry Republican”:
To which Hemlock replies:
To which istara said:
Then you, Freedom challenge istara to the Pit. Well, I agree completely with istara. It is stupid, ugly, self-centered claptrap like what that so-called Republican said that drives much of the resentment against the USA.
I ain’t scared of ya. Wanna Pit me?
Biggirl, your comment smacks of bigotry like:
[ul][li]It is the money-grubbing nature of Jewish businessmen that drives much of the resentment against Jews. []It is the brutal nature of American Indian rampages and scalpings that drives much of the resentment against Indians. []It is the [fill in your own epithet] of Blacks that drives much of the resentment against African-Americans. [/ul] Aren’t you uncomfortable making a statement similar to those?[/li]
Furthermore the entire thesis is ridiculous, both in theory and in practice. Extremist Muslims hate Americans so much that they have attacked us against and again. Their media call Americans vicious names over and over. How can one believe that the real problem was some insensitive American words?
In practice, the hatred is promoted by demagogues, just as racism and anti-Semitism are. These demagogues latch onto anything they can. They use lies, like the one about Israel having attacked the WTC. No matter how PC our words are, hate-mongers will find a reason to promote hatred.
Um, december, NO.
Your statements were all generalizations. Istara’s wasn’t. I quote:
““He’s the sort of (non-representative) stereotype of America…””
So, for instance, istara’s statement would be more like: ““The unrepresentative money-grubbing nature of that Jewish businessman drives much of the resentment against Jews.”” instead of ““It is the money-grubbing nature of Jewish businessmen that drives much of the resentment against Jews.”” Can you honestly not see the difference?
I was referring to Biggirl’s statement. Please re-read my post.
Another clue would have been when I said “so-called Republican”.
Look, I never enter into these Dem vs Rep debates because both sides end up looking rather narrow-minded and silly. But this is not about Republicans, unless you believe that Republicans all think like the Republican who was quoted.
Or did your knee jerk so high it hindered your line of vision and you really didn’t read the post. Let me pull out the relevant words:
Hemlock: "This is not a Republican speaking, but an “ugly American”.
istara:“He’s the sort of (non-representative) stereotype of America. . .”
Biggirl: “It is stupid, ugly, self-centered claptrap like what that so-called Republican said. . .”
What the guy said was stupid, egotistical bullshit. Attitudes like his foster resentment towards the US. If you want to claim him for the Republicans and defend what he says go right ahead december.
Islamic media (newspapers/TV) doesn’t, nor does Arabic media. Some terrorist propaganda (eg Bin Laden’s videos) probably does, but that’s not what I would describe as “media” in the general sense. I am not sure what would define as “extremist Islamic media” because I’m not aware that I’ve seen any - please bear in mind that even devout Muslims believe terrorism to be anti-Islamic - but I just thought I should clarify.
For a good sample of Middle East media - they syndicate copy from masses of different newspapers - try http://www.zawya.com. It’s primarily business news, but they post a lot of opinion pieces from the Jordan Times, Lebanon Daily Star, UAE Gulf News, etc.
Other than that I’m done with this argument because it’s already opened more than a can of worms, and I was new to these boards when I posted, and didn’t realise how much argument it would provoke. So sorry for that.
Don’t worry istara, your doing fine. This is Great Debates where the posters live to see a fresh cans of worms opened up.
Oh my god. The guy who orginally infuriated me has just updated his site, blaming the extent of the WTC tragedy on environmental protesters.
Oh my god. http://www.geocities.com/leobairn
Oh my god. I will never go back there.
Just a nitpick. In the novel The Ugly American, which I believe the phrase was taken from, “ugly American” is not a criticism. The novel takes place in a small South-East Asian country, and is actually a series of related vignettes, all dealing with US relations with the country. While the American diplomats engage in ineffective positioning and hobnobbing with the country’s upper class, providing U.S. aid for programs of dubious utility, ineffective against the appeal of the communists and blind to the needs of the common people, the “ugly American” (who is, in the book, an engineer), and a few other people like him, choose to go to the small farming villages of the country, live with the native population, and work with them on projects that will directly benefit them. (The ugly American and a villager create a cheap, effective water pump. Another character, who is a farmer, brings in new breeds of chicken to strenghten the breeding lines of the natives’ chickens) The book makes it clear that what will save US foreign policy are people like the ugly American, who isn’t concerned with being one of the “beautiful people” or knowing the right people, but who goes into the country with a real desire to help the people, lives like they do, and is humble enough to realize that he can learn from them, as well as teaching them.
I wonder if Fredom believes that the terrorists attacked us because they’re jealous of our freedom and liberty, too(*). :rolleyes:
(* = As opposed to, like, anything the United States might’ve actually done, such as overthrowing democratically-elected leaders or supporting local repressive governments)
Riiiight! The Taliban are deeply committed to democracy and liberty, so it’s only natural that they were mortally offended by the idea of overthrowing leaders and government repression. Huh? 
Well, the Taliban didn’t really do anything to us in particular. You probably want to ask if Al-Qaida is deeply committed to democracy and liberty.
Yes, I’m sure the terrorists were still highly steamed about the CIA’s role in ousting Mossadegh in Iran in the '50s. It’s hard to think of other “democratically-elected leaders” in the Middle East who’ve been overthrown by the United States.
As for “supporting local repressive governments”, this sort of logic works only if an essential component of “repression” is being friendly to the United States, in which case you can cite Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and so on. When it comes to repressive regimes like those in Iraq, Libya and Iran, (which in addition to denying fundamental rights to their citizens also war on their neighbors, encourage terrorists and build up arsenals of insanely destructive weaponry), we’re hardly “supportive” - unless you define sanctions and military action as “support”.
istara wrote:
Environmental protestors?!
Shucks. And here I thought the WTC tragedy was caused by communist pot-smoking lesbians in the ACLU making protest marches. It’s all part of their plot to undermine the American family!
Biggirl
Please…
If you’re on the rag and looking for a fight, then keep on looking. Go take your third party offended attitude elsewhere.
istara
I agree.
However, there is not even one second when I think he, or anyone like him is responsible for 9/11. Your implication that he was partly responsible was what set me off.
If I had to pick one reason they hate us, it would be that we do not suscribe to the militant pyshcho form of Islam they believe in. Their world view NEEDS a devil to fight against.
Well, we always appreciate fresh thoughts and new blood around here. Don’t take it personally and stick around. There are plenty of posters around here, and we run the gamut from all the political positions you can think of to those you don’t even know exist:)
rjung
Nope.
I think they hate us and everyone else who would stand against their psychotic vision of the way the world should be. America just happens to be the biggest kid on the block at the moment, so we get the honor of being their main target.
Believe it or not rjung, they hate you personally, just like they hate the rest of us.
I’m actually wondering if you really beleive that Al Queada cares even one little bit about democracy.
Freedom-that was absolutely uncalled for. That was just low.