UK Dopers, and anyone else following the story - do you think Jimmy Saville "dun it"?

In My Humble Opinion
41

I don’t have a horse in this race. I’m a Yank and I don’t know the guy. But coming in as an outsider none of this rings false with me. Not saying its beyond a reasonable doubt but I’m not on a jury.

If you are involved in the justice system you will already know this. Many times people who testify would have motivation for false testimony. That doesn’t make it false.

As someone who has interviewed many aldult victims of childhood sexual abuse I can say that not reporting it for decades is pretty much textbook. And from the articles it seems that some did come forward decades ago and were ignored. The fact that the children are often not strong enough to confront their accuser until long after they are adults is one reason why such things are very hard to prosecute. That doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. Or even weren’t likely to have happened.

If it did happen I hope they drain every pound out of whatever estate they can. Most victims that come forward can only hope for some closure and maybe seeing an old man go to jail after decades of being free and continuing to vicitmize others.

42

I’d like to see the page of the page of the autobiography first. Yeah it’s pretty damning what’s there, but I never trust quotes with that many gaps and filled in words.

I voted “other” since I have not heard enough information to form an opinion yet. I will say that most of this circumstantial stuff seems like a pile on to me. But again it’s the details of the case that will have the main effect on my opinion.

43

No, Casdave I wasn’t implying anything about you, though I can see how you could have thought that. Sorry. I was addressing Quartz on having been “similarly briefed” which I took to mean briefed to be sceptical over claims of abuse – as you said you are – and that and I was advising similar scepticism be applied to *those who had so briefed him * not you.

I do think that there is a culture in both the care system and the penal system that encourages disbelief toward claims of abuse. The fact that it can be shown that some such claims been false should not mean that all such claims are dismissed. There have been a number of cases in which people have been convicted of historic abuse where the victims had made attempts to say what was happening at the time but, taken on a case by case basis they had not been believed. Only when all the allegations were investigated systematically was the truth of what had been happening revealed.

Quartz I am not now clear whether your briefing was about guarding yourself against allegations or about disbelieving alleagations about others. it would be helpful if you would clarify.

44

Both. Mainly the former, though. Allegations had to be reported in writing (I was never put in the situation of having to report) but anything they said had to be taken with a big pinch of salt. Usually it was a case of trying to escape, “I’m here visiting my brother, can you give me a lift to the station?” A colleague accidentally got locked in to a ward once during a shift change and the staff would not just let her out until they had verified who she was and that she was not under duress.

45

I have no idea if the woman who said this is telling the truth or not.

But if we break it down a bit, I think it is beyond doubt a dead certain and stone cold fact that a lot of big stars in the music/acting world have sex with girls/young women and share them round like sweeties. That has always gone one. And I can’t see why it won’t go on for ever more.

Is it really so implausible that one big star would not be boasting about how he had acres of girls throwing themselves at him and inviting his mates to share? Everyone has heard of groupies, but who’s to say how old the girls are? No one really thinks too much about that, unless they are one of the parties involved. A star struck fourteen year old with a massive crush on a star off the telly wouldn’t be all that difficult to invite back to your dressing room for a chat and a drink, would she? “Oooh, he LIKES me. He doesn’t think I’m a bit of a kid. He sees me as a proper grown up. Yay!” Off she’d go and be delighted to have been chosen by the great man.
Once there, it’s a bit too late to for her to change her mind. And she’s snookered.

Bill Wyman married his girlfriend of six years’ standing when she was 18 and he was in his fifties, after all. That was in the late eighties and her Mum knew all about if from the off. We all know that there are plenty of men who find young teenagers sexually alluring.

So while of course this woman may be lying, I don’t think the story is implausible for the same reason you do.

46

You may have a point. I’ve read a couple of things about Savile shamelessly boasting about his conquests, so it is conceivable. I still find it unlikely, but I may be judging the situation by today’s standards. It seems that there was nowhere near the amount of stigma attached to paedophilia back then as there is now.

I didn’t see the interview in question, so I’ve no idea if this was what was said or not. It just sounds very much like the sort of thing a tabloid journalist would throw into the story later.

47

To be fair none of this was paedophillia, it was molesting young girls under the age of consent. That’s a huge difference.

48

And some not under the age of consent (which, remember, is 16 here).

49

“But your honor not all of them were 12. Some were 16!” Hardly a defense.

Anyway, it looks like they talked to other witnesses than just the girls of ill repute some are dismissing out of hand. Somehow when the BBC looked into doing a story on their own employee they couldn’t find anyone to talk.

50

Just to remind everyone the documentry is on in 80 minutes. I usually pop down to the pub at half ten for a few pints but may return early to watch it. If so I will be posting about it live here, as well as another forum.

51

Just got back from the pub, over an hour too late. However, I’m gonna watch it on ITV + 1. It’s seven minutes in now.

Not gonna post about it in real time though, unless it’s really important.

52

Well, let us know if you notice anything significant. We really missed your live commentary, after all that build-up.

53

If you are ever passing thru Salt Lake City, your first 20 beers are on me!!!

:smiley:

54

You guys, lol.

I do have a certain impression so far but I don’t want to say it as I would get pilloried for it.

55

If you are doing impressions lets see your Michale Caine.

56

You were only supposed to blow the FUCKING DOORS OFF!!!111!!1111!

57

Did anyone watch this then? Despite the fact that much of this had been leaked, there were still some shocking revelations in there, particularly about the amount of collusion there was between Savile and the local children’s homes. The story of the girl who ended up in solitary confinement for three weeks, for daring to accuse him, was particular shocking. I’m guessing some of the people who worked there will be getting a visit from the police in the next few days. The footage of Savile and Gary Glitter divvying up the teenage audience was pretty revolting.

The style of the documentary was a bit crap though. There seemed to be a “it’s unfair to judge him, because he can’t answer any of these allegations. That said, lets judge him!” vibe going on. It also felt a bit like the programme makers were a bit disappointed that the victims weren’t more emotional, so they had to get Esther to cry at the end. (Is crying mandatory on all ITV programmes these days?).

58

So does it seem less implausible now?

59

What is surprising me is the amount of surprise of others. Hasn’t this been a standing joke for years in the UK? The contents of his own memoirs do more than just hint at “shady” behaviour with “young” girls (though the highlighted terms are open to interpretation) He has always been seen as creepy.
No I don’t think there is any reasonable doubt that he did such things. “no smoke without fire” is a weak argument but in this case there are far too many people coming forward, far too many reports of previously stalled investigations for it to be mere opportunism.
It is a bit of Mother Theresa moment. Everyone knew she was an utter bitch but fingers remained in ears most of the time she was alive due to her veneer of charitable respectability, even when her own words and actions blatantly displayed her real character. Same with Jimmy.

60

Was this verified? Similarly the story of him and Glitter seems to be gilding the egg. Still, truth is often stranger than fiction.