I suppose you’re right about the subject/citizen thing. Been a while.
The letter from the Home Office is a tangible marking of the moment. A ceremony isn’t tangible. Do you mean meaningful? Anyway, I meant the “rolls” part literally, in a sense- the Home Office, after all, does keep a record of who it’s granted citizenship to (although if my mother’s experience is anything to go by, it doesn’t keep it in a very safe place).
Moving thread from IMHO to Great Debates.
Is there anything they could achieve that a contract or other signed declaration couldn’t?
Yes, I do :smack:
Correct, but there’s no overall record of all citizens to which they are added, which would be more meaningful (if not necessarily tangible…)
And these characteristiscs exists in people both with and without dyslexia. The condition is very real. Just because you can’t see a problem doesn’t mean it isn’t there…‘Whaddya mean, deaf? He’s got ears, hasn’t he?’
Sure there is. The General Register Office http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/ keeps track of who gets born in Britain. That’s where the paperwork goes when you register a birth - and where you get a copy of the birth certificate later, if you need one.
I must admit that I may well have been overtaken by events here,I used to follow with interest the research into Dyslexia but haven’t bothered for a while so I might have missed something.
The last report that I read on the subject (In New Scientist)was that there had not been a single scientifically proven case of Dyslexia as against anecdotal.
One boy was found whom they had had high hopes of being the first demonstrable proof of the condition actually existing, in the event proved not to be the case when he moved to Russia with his parents and did not suffer from the problem when using written Russian.
I cant help but wondering if the less then sympathetic attitude of teachers in the Russian education system had something to do with his miracle cure.
But as I say I haven’t kept up with events lately so I could well be wrong though I do realise that it is in many peoples interests to have this condition be taken as a genuine medical state.
It is a face saver to the parents who then do not have to believe that their child is either of lower intelligence then average or is simply lazy.
For over stretched teachers who are continuosly under pressure to achieve government targets it is a let out.
And for those in the Dyslexia "industry"it is a provider of jobs and wages.
I believe myself that if you tell a kid that the reason he is not able to do something is because of a medical condition then he will genuinnly not be able to do that thing from then on as a sort of Psychomatic indoctrination,nor will he feel that its up to him to even try because theres no shame,its not his fault and he should be pitied rather then be put down.
But as I say I haven’t been keeping up with the latest developments so I could well be wrong.
Well, I did write “speak or sign an oath” (emphasis added). Then we just get into the question of how that “contract or other signed declaration” should be worded and how it should be legally interpreted, in which case the wording supplied by RNATB is as good as any I’ve seen in this context.
It should also be pointed out that the oath/pledge as noted above goes along with being a second-class citizen. I don’t have the platinum-level citizenship privileges, like the right to pass citizenship along to my children, or to my wife. The pledge is a badge of inferiority, in other words. Sob!
But that’s still not a central or complete record. A birth certificate doesn’t necessarily entitle you to citizenship, the data provided to the GRO may not be sufficient to identify citizens from non-citizens, and most importantly you overlook those with citizenship by descent, born outside the UK. The latter are recognised by law as citizens from birth, but there’s not necessarily any record of them within the British system(s).
Eh?
If you’re born outside the UK to British parents (and they want you to have UK citizenship), you get registered at the nearest consulate. A birth certificate doesn’t prove citizenship but assuming your parents fall under the correct category your birth does entitle you to it- the status of the parents is noted on the certificate, if you register your child in the UK.
ETA: I may be wrong about this now - I was born in August of '82 to noncitizen parents, but it appears the rules changed in 1983.
Is that not only for children born to citizens by descent? From the 1981 Act (don’t ask me why it’s a Canadian site!):
Section 3 deals with the separate case of registration of children born to those who themselves hold citizenship by descent.
Yes, and there’s potental circumstances where the nationalities of both parents would be listed as other than British, but the child would still be recognised as a British citizen. The obvious one which comes to mind is a child born to two Irish citizens.
Yes, in reality, every citizen has a paper trail somewhere. But we’re getting a long way away from any concept of a single list of citizens…which was kind of my whole point to start off with 
Hang on, that’s not right, there’d be no ambiguity there. There would be with a parent with Indefinite Leave to Remain, though, because the birth certificate doesn’t say anything about this and only lists their foreign nationality.
Well, under those circumstances the child has to live in Britain until the age of 10, IIRC.
No, see my earlier link, section 1. If somebody has ILTR they count as ‘settled’ for subsection 1, and so their child is automatically a citizen. Only if this is not the case does the 10-year entitlement come into play, subsection 4, and this applies to any child, regardless of the parents’ status.
All this pledging your allegiance and flag waving reminds me too much of Nuremberg Rallies and May-Day parades in Red Square. It’s not the British way to do things.
Is it unseemly for me to pick nits and use a Wikipedia cite in the same post?
As of 2004, no-one can be executed for anything in the UK.
It reminds me of seeing Chinese schoolkids and Mao Tse Tung. Or the mindless American Pledge of Allegiance being recited parrot-fashion by schoolkids every morning. A forced pledge is worse thean meaningless.
:smack:
I left in 1996. Not my fault!
Does this mean I can now set fire to a Royal Shipyard and just get an ASBO?