I see, you were speaking from the USA perspective, ta!
I just realized that my toilet faces Mecca, too.
Only in the sense that it doesn’t cover Scotland: National Curriculum (England, Wales and Northern Ireland).
Apart from that, however, is it even true that, apart from a few prominent idiots like Ahmadinijad, skepticism about the holocaust is particularly widespread amongst Muslims? I don’t know, but I suspect the implication that it is common is its own little bit of bigoted rumor-mongering.
I think that NI uses a curriculum based on that for England, rather than being bound by that for England. I’m open to correction, however! 
Not exactly. If you review Snopes, there’s a fair number of politically-tinged e-mails that end up getting more or (often) less validated as partly or wholly true. (Even the one in the OP had a tiny kernel (but tiny kernel means ,100% BS) of (anecdotally-based, out of context) factual origin.
Taking a quick glance, for example, at the What’s New section on Snopes, I see right near the top a story about black farmers making allegedly-outrageous claims for alleged government discrimination.
You’ll see that while Snopes provides additional context and quotes defenders of the program, it largely validates the factual assertions (if not hostile spin) of the e-mail.
Here’s another anti-Obama-themed one that passes factual muster:
Since I work in UK prisons, and am very well informed about these matters, given my trade union role, I can say - total bollocks. Absolute and complete unadulterated shite.
Even if it were just these two toilet blocks (which it isn’t) this is a vanishingly small percentage of the total number of such facilities in UK prisons. The vast majority of toilets are in cells, and to change them would literally require rebuilding of every cell in every prison in the country - there simply is no room in the cell to align the toilets differantly - thats got to be a total of around 80 THOUSAND cells to be rebuilt, dont be so ****ing stupid!
Rubbish such as this reveals the agenda of the originator, it is one of bigotry and appeals to the hard of thought.
The information I have from Brixton prison relates to it having improved from the lowest performng prison, to one level higher, and that there has been a refufbishment of the education facilities and the visitors facilities - no doubt these are partly responsible fo the improvement - what I do find noticeable is the lack of any information about the alignment of toilets to face away from Mecca.
Since this message board is about dispelling ignorance, how about the OP find out if this toilet alignment is actually a tenet of Islam, because I have found over the years that in trying to make accomadations for Muslim prisoners, there is such a lot fo bullshit around, from the timing and facilities required for daily prayers, though the false need to have muslims only to prepare Halal food.
Nope, Australia has been in more wars alongside the US than any other country. Vietnam for instance.
I didn’t say “more times”; I said “to a greater extent”. In terms of troops, tanks, warships, intelligence, and equipment.
I have the greatest respect for Australia; but you can’t surely be arguing that its contribution to military affairs approaches that of the UK?
I heard that the US military is renovating all of their prisons to have the toilets face Mecca.
shrug Even if it’s coating a crunchy center of truth, sufficiently advanced spin is materially indistinguishable from pure, undiluted, industrial-grade bullshit. My general shit policy is to flush it, not wade in it hoping for corn. Or fling it at my contact list.
Man, this metaphor of mine is all classy.
Even if it had been true, it’s not as if this was some long cherished tradition in English Schools, such as outrage at dropping the teaching of Latin or Greek: the generations more affected by the war managed to get as much information as each wished regarding both the war and the Shoah without any school touching either subject: it was only introduced in 1991 ( partially ) on the urgings of some christian outfit called Beth Shalom run by a family called Smith near Laxton, Notts.
In 2009, there was a £15 million initiative to provide one **Holocaust Specialist **deployed to every secondary school in England. It’s rather amusing to compare the conditions of slave labourers with the well-paid jobs and comfortable surrounds of those making a living pontificating about them.
Whilst looking this up, I discovered that Tony Blair — never one to avoid leaping on a pious band-wagon — had in 2001 designated some day as Holocaust Day [TM]. This was the first I’ve heard about it.
As this page UK - Report on Holocaust Education explains there are a number of reasons that designated day has failed to catch on:
- It was introduced 55 years after the end of the Holocaust-many therefore do not see its relevance.
• The UK perspective on the Second World War is one of opposing Nazism and beating the Axis powers; it does not associate itself directly with either the perpetrators, or as victims.
Other genocides have happened since that have obscured the uniqueness of the Holocaust in the minds of many.
• Contemporary society has its own pressing problems which need addressing, rather than dwelling on events in the past that may seem remote.
• There is general confusion as to the aims and purpose of the day, which have not always been clear, and the messages have not always reached the right people.
Many community groups do not see the relevance to themselves.
There has been some opposition from groups who would want the day to be more inclusive of other genocides.
There is a general level of apathy present in any western society.*
If these, the first is most relevant. As time goes by, it’s unlikely that the presently sacrosanct uniqueness of the war’s events will be important. In 500 years’ time, should there still be records at all of any history, there will be another 500 years of history to remember with plenty of mass killings and wars, not to mention any then ongoing that may distract them.
There was no national curriculum during the time of “the generations most affected by the war”!
Anyway, you’re missing the point of the bigots’ contention: it’s not the dropping per se of teaching about the Holocaust, but that the dropping at the instigation of (or out of fear of) those darned evil fanatical Muslims.
As for the relevance today of the Holocaust: its importance is that it was perpetrated by what we considered to be an equally civilised society not too far removed geographically, the use of the machinery of state to carry it out, the use of large-scale industrial technology to carry it out, and the acquiescence of the wider society in its being carried out. The lessons for us here today should be obvious.
And as for the future… who knows? But it’s noticeable that over the past twenty years or so that support for commemoration of Armistice Day and of the Second World War generally has increased (and this before it became mainstream to publicly display support for present-day British troops involved in today’s overseas conflicts). The observance of a two minutes’ silence on November 11th is effectively a new thing.
Events should (and do) have a significance with those who have not been directly involved in them.
No. I mentioned that there was no state-sponsored teaching about the holocaust in British schools to children in the 1940s, '50s, '60s, '70s, '80s, etc.. It might be mentioned individually by a teacher, but generally modern history since WWI was barely mentioned, and definitely not such a priority as talking about the invention of the Spinning Jenny or Social History.
And considering the crap job teachers make of teaching any history in secondary schools, it probably didn’t matter. One could learn more of the 18th century by reading 3 or 4 books about it at random.
Although, obviously your surmise is true: there was no National Curriculum until 1988. Lady Thatcher’s government determined to impose control on all state education, since teachers are dangerously left-wing in conservative eyes. Never noticed it much myself.
Not really. Just pointing out that studying the subject in school by state mandate is a very recent innovation. So abolishing it whether to please alleged crazed muslims or not would not matter that much. We got on without it before and somehow every person in Britain back then, even the simplest, knew the nazis had murdered many jewish people and slavs and gipsies etc.. It wasn’t a big secret.
No, just no. The Two Minute Silence was instituted in 1919, and used to be a huge thing of vital importance. Anyone talking during the Silence was at risk of being hit by retards. Twenty years ago I can remember it being perfunctorarily honoured by choice. The last ten years I’ve never seen anyone actually stop and do it, least of all during work. Of course, the confusion between Remembrance Day ( the 11th ) and Remembrance Sunday ( nearest Sunday ) doesn’t help. Besides, as with every conflict there ever was, after a while anyone who fought in it would have died even had there been no war. It’s difficult to grieve for people once they would have passed their 150th birthday anyway.
Still, if any civilisation still remembers any history in 500 years time WWI and WWII, no matter how devastating to people at the time, will have faded into a general dreary list of mankind’s wars, and probably be seen as less important than either the much more devastating Thirty Years War in Europe and Tai-Ping Civil War in China amongst others.
European horse-flesh has still not recovered from the mass slaughter of horses during the Napoleonic Wars: consequences of previous wars took decades; Europe has recovered extremely fast from WWII due to the speed of techological improvement.
Per head of population? Yes, I can and am arguing exactly that. Surely you can’t be arguing that being involved in fewer common wars is a greater commitment that being involved in more? Obviously the UK can commit more in absolute resources per war than we can, having 4 times the population. But for instance we have committed more troops to Afghanistan than any other non-NATO country.
Why do you keep adding additional qualifiers into it?
You’ve added “number of times” and now “per head of population”. Are you gonan add in “per mile distance from the warzone” next?
That’ll be my point. Sending two sailors and a lame sheep to 10 wars is not the same as sending an actual army to 7 wars.
(Yes, I realise I’m exagerrating).
So have many NATO countries, pretty much, it being a largely NATO action. The UK certainly contributed many, many more troops, vehicles, ships, planes, and equipment to Afghanistan and Iraq than Autralian did - or, in fact, any country other than the US.
Yes, but we have to take into consideration that, unlike the UK, Australia never burned the White House to the ground. Surely they get some credit for that?
Yet. Our PM is there right now and is a redhead.
Obviously the two-minute silence was of tremendous importance after the Great War. However, I have absolutely no recollection of it being observed as a child in the 1970s and into the 1980s. My sense of it is that around 1995 or so things began to change. Maybe they’re shifting back again. Anyway, my mileage quite definitely differs from yours.
I do agree with you regarding the confusion caused by “Remembrance Sunday”. But that gets us onto a whole 'nuther discussion that would probably achieve nothing more than putting me in a bad mood.
In Australia it was observed quite punctiliously. The RSL (Returned Services league) clubs do, or used to, observe it at 6pm every day. That’s right, working class Australians stopped drinking beer for a minute a day in order to observe it. Every public ceremony on Anzac day did this every year.