I never entirely understood the confidentiality of salaries - then again, I’ve always worked for the govt. People in my office always seem to be aware of who is GS-7, GS-9 or GS-11, and what step they are. It comes into play for the little perks - like getting choice of seating when the office is rearranged. But the amount we make is available on line, among other sources - if I told you my grade and step, you could find my hourly rate.
No, I don’t intend to tell, but I think I may have in the past…
The confidentiality of salaries is there for one very important reason: to protect the company.
Any free market is only as good as the information of the participants. The labour market is no different. By keeping you guessing as to what your peers are earning, the company can prevent you from maximising your salary.
If everyone on level X is earning Y apart from Mr Loser who is on Y - 1000 but Mr Loser doesn’t know this, the company can carry on paying him Y - 1000. The moment he finds out, they’re going to have to pay him Y, as per everyone else.
The trick for the company is in making Mr Loser believe that Y - 1000 is the going rate for his services. They cannot achieve this if he knows what everyone else is earning.
What was that phrase about uniting, conquering, dividing and falling?
I can understand such confidentiality within an organization (to avoid problems like the ones described in this thread), especially if it’s a large organization…
…the thing I don’t get is that such confidentiality often gets carried into one’s personal life, where there is (presumably) no work-related competition.
I have several pretty close friends who artfully steer around naming any exact salary amount when we’re grousing about our jobs… Not that anyone’s asking, but in some conversations, the tone of voice, the small hesitations, and the careful wording of things serve as well as a giant neon sign reading, “I shall never reveal my salary to you! You may know about my genital warts, but salary is way too personal…”
I’ve never been offended by the question (among friends and family), and have always been willing to share. Of course, it has become such a taboo subject, that few people (aside from extremely close relatives and friends) will ever ask.
Then again, my salary is a matter of public record, so maybe those other folks in my life just don’t need to ask…
Well auntie, I don’t at all mind revealing my salary to friends in similarly paid jobs. But I feel rather awkward revealing to someone if I earn considerably more than them. So I don’t.
I don’t really see what relevance it has outside of the workplace anyway. What possible point could there be to the discussion?
Velma, I shouldn’t have slammed the commo degree. I guess I have a certain arrogance about certain degrees over others. I tend to have respect for Math, most science, business, English degrees but tend to look down on communication, sociology. psychology because they were the easiest classes I’ve ever took in college and a large percent of the clueless I’ve had to deal with in the in the business world had one of these degrees. I’ve also met many very competent people with those degrees.
Fairychatmom, I used to tend to agree with you about salaries that they should be public. That way people would see the truth around them and the people who set these salaries would have to defend them opening up more public discourse.
On the other hand, there is a large number of people that would try to set salaries by their perceived (to them) importance and not by supply and demand. The woman with the communication degree may work longer hours, have much more client contact and the like but the fact is that there are many communication majors (and others) out there that would gladly do her job but to find someone in my department takes weeks and weeks of looking to find a suitable candidate. It then takes more effort to make sure they come here instead of somewhere else. It doesn’t mean that this position is more ‘important’ but that it has to pay more just because of supply and demand. There are less of these people out there. Having salaries hidden may help these people concentrate on their career instead of fixating on ‘unfairness’. My company could decide that, indeed, we should be paid more evenly and lower my salary. All that would happen is that I would leave for another company and they wouldn’t be able to hire someone to replace me without upping the salary. If they could, then I was, indeed, overpaid.
Consider the teaching field. Everyone knows what teachers make. This makes teachers fixate on the ‘unfairness’ of their salary. However, if their salaries were truely unfair, there wouldn’t be any teachers. There are teachers. The schools still run so they must be able to find them so their salaries are ‘fair’. I’m not saying it is right but if you pay a wage and people come then supply and demand is affirming that the salary is fine.
I don’t think it has a whole lot of relevance outside of the workplace, however it does sometimes come up naturally in conversation (talking about how broke we are, for example), just like an aunt’s 50th birthday party (which has little relevance outside the family and the Hallmark store) might come up in a conversation with a friend.
I mean, imagine if you had a friend who got all weird and awkward and halting over a discussion about the aunt’s birthday party:
“Well, on Sunday, I was at… [pause]… this place… Well, all I’m going to say is that there were… [pause] * other people* there, OK? And then, well… the person, the main person of this event, she was… removing something from a box… and that thing that she took out of the box, well, it made her so happy that she jumped up to hug someone, and knocked over the coffee table, just as another person had placed something on that coffee table… something involving flames… And, well, the flames caught the carpet on fire, and everyone had to evacuate… [pause]… the place, until the Fire Department came.”
No problem, I guess I have my own issues about the opposite: I tend to think people with math, science, business degrees are boring and not very creative . But seriously, I think it’s partly due to taking more advanced classes in your own major. The math and science classes I took were my easiest classes, too, because they were core level. Once you get up to advanced anything classes, it gets more difficult. I live with a math / technical person, and he impresses (puts me to sleep ) with his knowledge of physics, while I amaze (ok, bore) him with my ability to interpret a Chekhov play.
Regarding the bigger issue of salary disclosure, I am all for it being less taboo. It really doesn’t bother me to tell people what I earn, although I can see it bothers them. I don’t understand, though, the lengths people will go to not talk about it. I am comfortable with it, and while I wouldn’t ask anyone else what they make, it is amusing to me to watch them try to avoid talking about my salary. Once it came up in a conversation with a friend, and I mentioned I had gotten a raise and how much that ended up being per year. (It was not to brag, since it is not that impressive and I know she makes more than I do.) She was clearly embarassed, as if I had told her I had herpes or something, and quickly changed the subject. I guess if you want to end a conversation quickly with someone, one way is to say “hey! Want to guess how much I make?”
Wow, this sure is different than my job here. Everyone’s salary is pretty much known everywhere. You can guess peoples’ commission rates, and their sales are trumpeted far and wide. You just get used to the idea that everyone knows.
Heh. On the other side, when I quit my job a few weeks ago, I made sure to “let slip” how much I was making to a few choice people whose arrogance had been pissing me off. I was the highest paid part-time employee the company had ever had, and I did jack diddly when I was there. It was really fun to see the look on the face of Mr. Bigg Shotte when he found out I was making about 60% more than him for surfing the internet and watching MST3K.
There are good reasons to keep your finances personal. Family who expect us to bail out the “unlucky” relatives would expect even more. Neither of us mind helping people, and usually use birthdays, christmas and visits as excuses to give useful stuff to those who need it, but when the same people keep expecting hand-outs and keep repeating the same mistakes, well, we don’t want to enable that, and the money is earnt for us to enjoy… it just makes less hassle if family have no idea how much we earn.
{minor hijack}This reminds me of a weird exchange I had with my (older) sister, when I was studying art at college. She said (in a mean tone) “You chose to study art because it’s easy.” (She has a degree in chemistry.)
I was floored. I was studying art because I was obsessed with it - I had been since I was 4 years old. When she said this to me, I was taking WAY too many classes, and was quite overwhelmed from the pressure. (But of course, I was loving it too, because I was so obsessed). The stress had even caused me to skip a period. (A very unusual thing for me.) So, when my sister said this mean thing to me, I thought, “EASY??? You call this EASY?!?!?”
The thing is, you never really know what’s behind someone’s choice in a major. You don’t know why they chose it, or what they plan on doing with it, or anything.
That said, I’ve met people with art degrees that did sort of coast through, and didn’t show much talent (that I could see). I’ve come to the conclusion that while degrees are important, possessing one does not automatically mean that you are talented, or capable. (Just like not having one automatically means you are less talented or capable.){/minor hijack}
Regarding the OP: what a nut this woman was!
Something about this is so familiar.
I’ve encountered people like this too. It’s like they sit up at night, thinking of reasons to be offended by things that are none of their business. Like, it’s all about them, you know. The world revolves around them, after all, so when you do something, it reflects on them somehow.
