Why is salary such a touchy subject?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I used to be very involved with a woman who hated talking about money. Every once in a blue moon I’d bring the subject up and be amazed at how doggedly she’d avoid it. She seemed to be under the impression I had an ulterior motive for wanting to know about it. I finally told her that my interest was out of curiosity only, and that her lack of trust in me was far more disturbing to me than knowing or not knowing how much she made. Keep in mind, we had known each other at this point for almost ten years. Here’s why I really wanted to know (in addition to curiosity): it gives me a good feel as to whether a person is financially stable and responsible. I was considering marriage, and this seemed like a good thing to know.

So, here are my questions:

  • Was I wrong for wanting to know?
  • Are you offended in any way when asked how much you make?
  • Do you avoid this topic with strangers/acquaintances?
  • What about friends?
  • If so, why (especially if you don’t like talking to close friends about it)?
  • Either way, do you feel like people will judge you in some way if you tell them?
  • Are you proud/ashamed/ambivalent of your salary?
  • What’s the worst thing someone can do to you with this knowledge?
2

If the relationship is serious enough to be discussing marriage, then salary is an important issue to discuss. In fact, most couples do not discuss finances enough before marriage, and financial matters is one of the biggest causes of divorce.

However, outside that kind of relationship, your salary is between you and the IRS. I can’t think of anything good that comes out of discussing it.

The reason, I suppose, is that for many people your salary is an estimation of your worth. People who don’t make a lot are afraid of being looked down on. People who do make a lot don’t want to be resented. And so on. Inevitably, someone ends up feeling bad when people start comparing salaries.

3

I’ve known quite a few people who make a good salary but are neither financially stable nor responsible. One doesn’t always lead to the other.

My personal finances are no one else’s business; therefore, I don’t discuss it except in round figures.

4

And if the discussion goes further, it can lead to more hurt feelings. Talk of raises (“why didn’t you get a (bigger) raise last year?”), speculation about where someone’s money goes, and so on - lots of opportunities to insult somebody in this kind of discussion.

5

**Exactly… this is why I like to know, as it shows something about a person’s character.

I totally respect this attitude, but it’s my lack of understanding with it which prompted this thread. I mean, don’t you talk about other stuff which is no one’s business? Why is money any different? I can see the points Skammer and Ferret Herder raised, but then again, if you’re talking with friends, is the potential for insult really such a big deal? Would any of you feel the kind of resentment you’re talking about?

I’m not trying to be dense here. People in my line of work never have to worry about this because salaries are public record and it’s good for a senior to be aware if a subordinate is in financial difficulty or is being irresponsible. So I’ve had many talks about money, and never thought twice about insults and resentment. And these are with colleagues. I wouldn’t think twice about having similar conversations with friends.

6

As for the possibility of insult being caused when talking with friends, certainly it’s there. My inlaws grill my husband about his wages, overtime hours, bonuses, and so forth very frequently, and closeness of relationship doesn’t prevent hurt feelings necessarily.

Perhaps the friend in question feels resentful about her salary being too low and doesn’t wish to discuss it. Maybe she thinks you’ll press the issue about why doesn’t she change her job, etc. Maybe you told her your salary and she feels embarrassed that she makes a heck of a lot more than you do.

And as for discussing other things that are “no one else’s business”, no, not everyone does. There’s a general prohibition in etiquette against discussing politics, religion, and sex in most general social situations, and questioning someone on salary is nearly always forbidden (unless you’re essentially married). Mind you, not everyone adheres to this, or can bend the circumstances in which some topics are discussed, but this is a pretty common rule. When it’s taught to you as frequently as “sit up straight” and “say please and thank you” and so forth, it can become deeply ingrained.

7

Many employers encourage this hesitancy to talk about wages, because of the disparity in what they pay their employees. I remembered being stringently warned against discussing salary when I worked at a large chain store, and was told that I could actually be disciplined if caught talking about it. The First Ammendment popped into my mind, but I decided not to test it.

This same chain was later sued by an employee who broke the rule, and discovered that male employees were consistantly paid better than females in the same position.

Not all of the disparity in wages is illegal, mind you. They just want the option of being able to start you out lower, so that you’ll be thrilled and grateful (and hopefully a loyal, hardworking employee) when they give you “raises” which put you on par with your collegues.

8

In the corporate world, it is a definite taboo to discuss wages with your co-workers, and you may suffer sanctions for it. And it’s just not a good idea, for reasons stated above.

That being said, I have plenty of friends in my profession with whom I’ve discussed the subject. They’re friends, not necessarily (in fact, rarely) co-workers.

And I’ll discuss it with other friends outside the business if they need a fix on the landscape, or we’re contemplating a financial endeavor, or some such.

OTOH, if I don’t know you well, or don’t think you have a good reason to know, why should I reveal that kind of info to you? Even in the case of union or public employees whose wage scale is available knowledge, I can see not wanting everyone to know your exact financial position, investments, debts, etc.

But, at the point of considering marriage, well, yes, I would think that a bit of intimacy that ought to be shared.

9

If everybody knew what everyone else was making, there would be absolute chaos across America!

The social fabric would be destroyed - What else would people talk about at cocktail parties?

“What do you do?”

“Where do you live?”

“Where did you go to school?”

“Who do you work for?”

(repeat Q’s for S.O.)

All these are about “How much do you make” - removing that question would mean death to social climbers everywhere!

  • heathen, who no longer socializes… :smiley:
10

Was I wrong for wanting to know?
No. You were thinking about getting married to this person, right?

** Are you offended in any way when asked how much you make?**
Usually. It really depends on who’s doing the asking and why. “How much do you make?” is sort of an intrusive question and it’s usually not anybody’s business. Such a question is just rude, I think. There are, of course, exceptions. Wife. IRS. Lawyers. Accountants. Financial aid officers.

**Do you avoid this topic with strangers/acquaintances? **
Almost always. I never ask, and rarely tell.

** What about friends? **
It depends. I’ve revealed some information about how much I made at various jobs when friends have asked if there was a place for them at Whatever, Inc. You know, I’ll tell people that the starting wage at my job is ten bucks-an-hour or something. I make money from more than one source, though, and I don’t think anybody knows exactly how much I’m worth. Likewise, people don’t know my expenses or debts. The money I spend on rent, car payments, and prostitutes* is nobody’s business but my own. And, of course, my wife’s.

**If so, why (especially if you don’t like talking to close friends about it)? **
Well, it’s just private. My parents always kept their income secret from me, so I guess I’ve been trained not to talk about finances with people. Plus, for some reason, some people measure you based on your income. I don’t know why, but comparing pay checks or bank accounts with somebody would be kind of like comparing penis length. Again, there are exceptions. I remember comparing checks with somebody I worked with at a factory a couple years ago because we were both confused–it was the first pay check after the company changed its accounting system.

**Either way, do you feel like people will judge you in some way if you tell them? **
Of course they’ll judge me. Not everybody of course, but some people will. They shouldn’t, but they will.

**Are you proud/ashamed/ambivalent of your salary? **
My money isn’t usually a source of pride for me. It’s never been a source of shame (even when I’m flat broke).

**What’s the worst thing someone can do to you with this knowledge? **
Tell other people, I guess. Make fun of me because I’m poor, maybe? Inspire people who think I’m rich (haha!) to try to get me to loan them money.

–Mephisto, who gave up an income to go back to school.

  • Just kidding about the prostitutes, of course.
11

Also : Management has the incentive to make sure that the grunts don’t discuss pay, as it will inevitably lead to more whining “he gets paid more than I do for an easier job” or “I work twice as effectively as he does why don’t I make more?”. For obvious reasons, management wants to avoid having to be bothered to respond to those statements.

But IMHO, forbidding salary comparisons is generally an irresponsible way for management to avoid a very important subject.

Management notwithstanding, when two people have very different job descriptions, then pay comparisons are often ill-advised. While the capitalistic society may (in general) value scientists more than accountants more than receptionists more than copy boys, that doesn’t mean that those people are more important overall. The assumption that someone is worth more because they’re paid more is an easy (but erroneous) step to make. Simply remember that a person has a life outside of the job: That scientist may go home and play video games and post on the SDMB, while that copy boy may also volounteer to run with the ambulance and refferee for the local kids’ soccer tournament.

But then, you knew that. We all know that. We also know how easy it is to forget, and don’t want others to rank us for our lower or higher salaries. Or, at least, I don’t. :cool:

(Though I make sure I do know what my co-workers with the same job description are making.)

IMHO, Nardo

12

I think it’s a completely acceptable topic of discussion for people that are considering a future together. However, I also think that there is a “ballpark” figure that goes with different jobs so it shouldn’t be that tough to figure out what range you’re talking about, if someone is reluctant to share the 411.

From just the general perspective…personally, I would never offer up the information (when I was employed) and would think it odd if someone asked me outright without a burning need to know (I have a friend that is looking in your area and she/he got an offer than she/he thinks is low…can you tell me what you make?). From my own female perspective, I would be turned off if a guy told me his salary outright – regardless of what it was.

One of my “life’s learning lessons” was many years ago when I was transporting an envelope that contained salaries of my co-workers. Against my better judgment, I opened it up and LOOKED. Big mistake.

13

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by flyboy88 *
**So, here are my questions:

To me, your case was different as you were considering marriage, and it is appropriate to know the relative financial state of someone you’re marrying.
Generally, I’d say the curiosity is basic human instinct, but asking is tasteless. Salary is personal information, not something to be publically bandied about.

Offended, no. Taken aback, yes. And I do think it’s a breach of etiquette, though a relatively minor one.

Yes, I avoid it.

Yes, I avoid that, too.

It’s something that I was brought up not to do. Like putting your elbows on the table, or not saying “please” and “thank you,” or interrupting constantly.

I do think that if I tell my salary, people will think that I don’t know any better than talk about my salary.

ambivalent.

Nothing. There’s also very little that they can do with many other pieces of information that it just isn’t polite to talk about.

14

Because it doesn’t matter.
Because given giddy array of what people are, the flat-out least interesting or pertinent aspect is what they possess at the moment.

I forget the BBC mystery, but a doughty wife grumped about the crudity of fawning guests, “noticing our things!” Exactly. “Stuff” took priority over people.
And this cuts both ways, btw. Broke or poor, what people have isn’t what they are. Broke doesn’t equal shiftless and rich doesn’t equal greedy.

IMO some issues should be reserved for close friendship when it comes to open questions, and even those are subject to quirks of individual privacy. I’d no more ask someone their net worth than I would their religion or bedroom practices.

People are not their incomes but people are sometimes burned, badly, by outsiders’ judgments. It’s a privacy issue whether or not to share.

Veb

15

Doesn’t matter to me. If you want to know how much I make, ask. Salary does not indicate a person’s worth (to me at least). Although, because many people are sensitive about this issue, I’ve never asked anyone about their salary.

When I was told not to discuss salary with co-workers, I ignored it. Sorry, my salary is not a company secret, it’s my salary.

16

(added) I should have said that I’ve never asked anyone about their salary that didn’t ask me first.

17

I honestly can’t see what the big deal is, and I’m inclined to think it’s one of those real-world, grown-up things I’ll never understand. Whether you have any siblings is not who you are. Where you grew up are not who you are. Your age and health are not who you are. None of these things determine people’s worth, they’re not ultimately important when dealing with people, and I don’t see what makes them any more other people’s business than salaries. But they’re all topics of polite conversation.

18

I feel uncomfortable discussing my salary, because I believe I’m overpaid compared to other professions. I earn far more than nurses, teachers and the like, so I dislike publicising the fact that I am paid more for a far less important job.

19

flyboy88, on match.com they give their salary in their profile…

The three basic things one shouldn't ask about are: religion, sex & money.