By the way, **Polycard **, I would add that you’re discarding my opinion quite lightly, on the basis of existing laws and cultural norm, and that you see no problem with priviledges being granted on the basis that someone is monogamous.
You could equally say : *But in point of fact, in the nations and cultures from which this board’s membership derives, every single one of them has laws in which ** heterosexual ** marriage, without reference to progeny, has specific rights and privileges accruing to the members in it from each other and from the community as a whole * and on this basis oppose homosexual marriages.
Why don’t you? Why do you agree with granting priviledges to some people who have an alternate lifestyle (homosexuals) and not to others (polyamorous)? Because homosexual and heterosexual people are “good” people living a moral monogamous live, while the other are “evil” people living a depraved live not approved by God in the scriptures (though concerning polygamy and the scriptures…but well…)?
I know it’s not the reason, actually. But perhaps you should reconsider what I said and wonder why you discarded the idea so easily…
Perhaps, clairobscur, if you want to debate the legitimacy of marriage as a social arrangement, it would be best to do so in a GD thread, rather than this one which is already too tainted with our outrage with uncle toby spit
I can certainly see the logical basis of your arguement and would find the discussion interesting, even if I don’t post in the thread.
Back to Captain Bigot Defender Beeblebrox, who says
Get down from your fucking cross. Many of the posters in this thread participated in the thread linked in the OP and in the other thead graciously linked to by grendel72, which by the way you failed to acknowledge. You have no way of knowing how much of these threads the other posters read. Besides that, Polycarp quoted enough of the idiot’s posts for them to base their opinions on. Go on, go find some other asshole to defend, this one ain’t worth it.
I didn’t read Toby’s entire argument. I read enough of his backfill to get a flavor of the weasel of the moment.
Beeble? Do you know how hard it is to piss off Polycarp? Do you have a list handy of all the people he has made unwarranted negative comments about? Do you have a list handy of all the blatant hate spewers he has stood in front of, responding reasonbly with kindness and patience? Well, neither do I, but I don’t need one.
Toby has left verbal turds here other than this one, and I am familiar with the smell. I don’t need to read his entire thread to reacquaint myself with the stench. I will take Polycarp’s word on the possibility that it was offensive, since on the whole I get offended a whole lot more than he does.
When some joe on the street tells me that celery salt causes cancer, I nod and mumble, and pretty much ignore it. When some joe from the American Association for the Advancement of Science tells me that celery salt causes cancer, my reaction is quite different. With all things, you consider the source. The source of this contention that Toby made offensive generalizations as a part of a sanctimonious pronouncement of his particular flavor of morality is one of the most reliably decent, and open minded people I have ever seen on the Internet. No, I don’t need to read the spew. I don’t want to read it.
This is not willful ignorance. I suppose it might be considered cowardice, since it is simply motivated by a desire to avoid an unpleasant few moments reading posts I would have otherwise ignored. But it is mostly a fairly obvious exercise in considering the past performance of sources, and deciding to continue to rely on what has been unfailingly reliable, and not to discard an already fairly firm negative judgment about another source.
Tris
“Captain Bigot Defender Beeblebrox”. Chuckle. Well, I am a card carrying member of the ACLU. 
At any rate, I’ve said my piece about dogpiles, and am washing my hands of this whole thing… and this time I actually mean it.
First off, I think that it’s a good thing that Beetlebrox is willing to take a cause no one else will touch.
And getting pitted by Polycarp is much like posting in leetspeech. There may be something worthwhile at the core, but that’s one heck of an indicator that the poster won’t be around too much longer.
Oh, yeah. The marriage thing. I say yank governmental involvement altogether. And no whining about the children. The rights of adults here and now trump those of children yet unconcieveed.
And for the record, had St. Poly pitted anyone else before?
Oh, he has a couple of times. In fact, like me, he’s pitted his own church, if I recall. I’m not sure if I remember him pitting another poster, but then again, I figure I’m still sort of new here. Our own Polycarp, like the Saviour he serves, is fully human which is fine by me, because otherwise he’d be too good to be true! That said, if he’s pitting someone, there’s probably a good reason for it.
CJ
Alright, I’m going ot forego the debate about marraige because I actually want to tell Beeblebrox what the beef is with Uncle Toby.
Whatever anyone says about Polycarp and his niceness and his “oh, my God he’s taking someone to the Pit”, I almost took Uncle Toby to the Pit myself last week for his callousness in a very good thread started by monica.
I’m sorry, I can’t find it, but needless to say, he was downright rude towards the OP (Ask the Teenager) and everyone else who actually had something legitimate and rather forthcoming to add.
There were planty of teens who went out of their way in that thread to give us older folk the lowdown on what its like in High School these days, and Uncle Toby came in blasting them with self-righteousness on how they are all miserable do-nothings.
After others told him he was out of line, he went back to his old “I was just expressing an opposing viewpoint” stance.
This guy is a Troll. He may not be Wildest Bill, who was so ignorant he didn’t realize what he said was offensive, Uncle Tobe goes into a discussion with the express purpose of pissing in other people’s pools.
He’s just very calculated about it.
Once he gets called on his offense, he takes a step back and claims to be acting out of some sense scientific methodolegy.
He uses a guise of sterile objectivity to throw others off his scent, and I think that’s just as offensive as his Trolling to begin with.
Guess what, Uncle Toby, we’re not stupid. We’re on to you. If you continue to be an asshole, it will not be pleasant for you here.
LinkMobile to the rescue!
[Cameron whine]
I M Punha you’re my hero.
[/Cameron whine]
dreamer, I have disagreed with plenty of your posts in the past, but I’m with you on this one.
It’s interesting – we seem to be able to thoughtfully debate the existence of God, the coming Mid-East cataclysm, handicapped Viper owners, but come an investigation into the societal disfavor of homosexuality, everyone goes Nuclear Apeshit.
UncleToby, considering the insults both vicious and numerous, and the strawmen piled upon his head, was both impeccable polite and intellectually rigorous, something few if any of his detractors were.
Go through the GD, and reverse the positions. How many insults do you now find in the posts “debating” UncleToby? How many strawmen and capricious arguments? How many wrongheaded attacks on his spelling and dictionary usage, as opposed to the content? No doubt this accounts for Kirkland’s banning, but he wasn’t the only one over the line, just the furthest.
And Trolling? Please. UncleToby was pushed into an adversarial stance by the sheer hostility that accompanied even his most neutrally stated posts. In a disturbing pattern, that adversarial stance is then pitted and denounced, (against the rules of the board) as a Troll as a transparent attempt at banning the poster and censoring his opinions.
I understand that we have a significant gay populace on the SDMB, and that in perceiving a personal attack, sometimes intellect gets pushed aside by raw emotion, but I ask, should we be censoring this topic from Great Debates?
Because make no mistake about it, we are.
Not only do we censor any intellectual analysis of homosexuality, but I’ve noticed the smarter the poster, the faster the discussion is shut down. UncleToby is not the first, nor shall he be the last to be shouted down in GD. We must ask ourselves: Is it homophobes we hate or is it the debate?
Think there’s no censorship here? Try to find a wording you would use in UncleToby’s place so that his GD posts would have actually been debated, and not his character. It’s completely impossible.
-Ace
My worth as a human being is not up for debate. I will debate the causes of homosexuality, I’ll debate the origins of anti homosexual prejudice, but I will not for one second entertain the notion that anybody might have the right to ban my sexuality or my dignity, which is exactly what Uncle Toby and his kind are on about.
Should we debate “Jews: Christkillers or not?”
How about “Slavery: Bring it back?”
Some topics are off the table, as far as I am concerned.
Poly
Please forgive him. It is impossible to love God without loving “the least of these”. Don’t wear the laurels you’ve been offered or you will eventually cease to be Poly.
One more martyr for the cross, eh Ace ol’ buddy. Give it a rest. Unc Toby was not after an intellectual debate. He was being intentionally offensive, intellectually dishonest and arguing from false premises. And you’re building a strawman here. Don’t forget, this flaming got started not about his stance towards homosexuality.
We won’t try to find a wording for his stance that is inoffensive, because his position itself was offensive, disproven by decades of research and bigoted.
Oh my gosh–I just saw this. I’d like to insult Uncle Toby, but I’m virtually speechless! How about this: May all the teeth in his head fall out except one, and may that one have a permanent toothache!!!
For twenty years, I went to doctor after doctor after doctor complaining that something was wrong with my menstrual cycles. Doctor after doctor after doctor brushed me off and ignored me. Finally, after I’d been married 8 years and unable to conceive, I started going to a reproductive endocrinologist. He did a laparoscopy, and it turns out I’ve got stage 4 endometriosis, so badly that they are unable to do ANYTHING about it until I get a hysterectomy. I’m holding out to try to do one more IVF (at a cost of approximately $15,000 EACH and insurance does NOT cover it). In the meantime, I live with constant daily pain.
My husband and I are a family. And we’re a family regardless of whether we had fifty children or whether we have no children. I can’t believe that jackasses like you are allowed to reproduce and people like me are not.
:smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack: :smack:
The dualistic confrontational hatred expressed by certain homosexual posters here mirrors the dualistic confrontational hatred expressed by His4ever. I had no idea we were such a cauldron of Fundamentalists! And further, the kind of Fundamentalists who state interchangeably “this isn’t something I like.” to “It should be banned.” All that’s lacking from the equality is the hellfire and eternal damnation!
This is quite the sisyphusean task: Combating intolerance with intolerance! Adding to the irony is the GD in question concerned advancing homosexual acceptance. I guess the answer should have been: By flaming, and censoring any discussion, that’s how we’ll advance the gay cause! :rolleyes:
Helllooo, Onion Headline!: GAYS ADVANCE ACCEPTANCE BY HATING JUST AS MUCH. Ok, everyone’s finished their one-minute hate towards UncleToby. Now what?
If you think a thread is beyond the bounds, instead of drowning out a GD in a censorious post flood, why not simply report it to the Moderators?
Just one man’s opinion,
Ace
Careful, Ace - your homophobia is showing.
Esprix
Lib, after venting my anger at Uncle Toby’s attitudes and hearing what he had to say, I can live with his having opinions such as he has. I don’t hate him; if anything, I pity him. (And I pray for more compassion to deal with people like him.)
As for Jim (my wife’s boyfriend), I am still grappling with trying to find forgiveness in my heart towards him. But, like Beeb and others have said, I’m merely human; I sin on a continual basis towards my fellow man. Someday, perhaps I’ll be able to look at what happened dispassionately and forgive him. A step towards that is recognizing the good that I’ve been able to do for some kids that needed a caring adult badly thanks to having a stable home with no kids of my blood demanding my attention when they needed me – and how they in turn ministered to me and healed some wounds I didn’t realize I had.
Well, Acey, I could claim that you were a moron and undeserving of rights because you are defending a nincompoop, but that would be a stupid position. Uncle Toby’s argument was a naked justification of his bigotry. His actual argument was torn to shreds, the shreds shredded further, and the resultant syntatic confetti sifted finely. He was R-O-N-G. IMHO, holding a position that has been unquestionalbly defeated violates Rule 1. IANAMod, however.
Poly
If I could manage half the love you have in your heart, I would be well along in my moral journey. As we trudge through these atoms and play out this play, let us always be mindful of the joyous day when we see our Lord face-to-face in all His glory. And let us remember that, by His side, will be people whom we found unredeemable.
God go with you always, my brother.