Unless you are claiming that consensual, albeit underage, sex is also “rape”, than this is just a tautology. Of course “rape” is “rape”, but is all underage sex rape?
Oh, so that helps me understand.
Except it leads to more confusion. If I get you:
rape is intolerable, and should be punished with severe (if not the most severe) sanctions.
but rape is only rape when it’s not unreasonable to claim it is.
This doesn’t help me understand what standard you would ultimately apply to teenage relations. I think you draw that line of reasonableness at a 5 year age gap (or, perhaps, just sex when one person is 13). Is that right?
Is there a minimum age or age difference that you do feel is reasonable enough to not be rape?
I think there’s a range of “badness” to most crimes. Some murders are worse than others. Some rapes are worse than others. This doesn’t change the fact that there’s some maximum punishment, and once the act is bad enough, it and everything worse gets that maximum punishment.
I’ve already given examples in this thread of when i consider it not to be, so why are you asking me again? Were you unable to edit your post, or is this cheap rhetoric?
No. I’d personally set the line at a 1 year gap for R&J-type things, but am willing to concede as much as a 2-year gap, no more.
I favour a hard lower limit of 14. My own country sets that at 12, but I think that’s too low. The difference between a 12 and a 14 y.o. is huge.
This post is being further reviewed. I was in the process of writing up a warning for Steophan for his post. This is not acceptable behavior. A clear attack on another poster. You have a habit of doing this.
Warning for Steophan for a very inappropriate attack on another poster, bringing up his history as a victim of the subject. DO NOT attack other posters outside the pit.
You may continue to post in this thread, but don’t attack other posters.
I’ll go back to my sister as an example. The sister that was sexually abused as a child and trafficked for 4 months when she was 12.
When she was 15 or 16, she dated - and slept with - lots of older guys. Most of these guys were in their early twenties. My parents were aware of this, sometimes the guys would pick her up at the house. I think by this point they had figured out they couldn’t change her behavior, so they figured it was safer if she didn’t sneak around.
I’m not saying this was without harm. She had a tendency to get really emotionally involved in a way that wasn’t reciprocated. I think these guys were scum. I think they deserved legal consequences.
But they weren’t nearly as bad as the men that trafficked her or the man that sexually abused her as a child.
Further, if someone said that the 22 year old she dated at 16 was just as bad as the men that abused her when she was younger, I would think that they were minimizing the more serious crimes.
And FWIW, if I had to make the choice, I’d rather be raped than murdered.
I know it seems strange to some of the posters as I agree there is different levels of rape. One of my high school friends (we were out of HS) was charged with rape when he picked up a girl in a bar, went to her place and started having sex. In the middle of the act she changed her mind and told him to stop. He apparently didn’t stop quick enough, like in mid stroke, and she filed rape charges. He was charged, convicted, served the minimum amount of time. Should that have been a full on rape charge? He did stop like seconds later, and she admitted to that but stop means stop in the eyes of the law. She goes from a willing participant to not and his life has the potential to be ruined?
The under age part? Yeah, 14 is probably too young even with the R&J laws but an 18 year old and a 17 year old, not an issue. I have heard from my kids about some 13 year olds at school having sex but knowing who they were they had a messed up life already. Sad.
To clarify my stance (age of consent is 18, but no crime if parties are no more than 3 years apart, and misdemeanor only if 3-5 years apart), I don’t think it’s a good thing for 18-year-olds to be sleeping with 15-year-olds, and certainly not with 13-year-olds. But not everything that shouldn’t be done should be criminalized, or punished to the full extent of the law. People shouldn’t cheat on their significant others; that doesn’t mean we should lock up adulterers. Parents shouldn’t spank their children, IMO, but I wouldn’t want to arrest them over it. Kids shouldn’t bully other kids, but juvenile hall is not the answer except perhaps for extreme instances involving violence. The criminal justice system is a sledgehammer that often crushes those near the perpetrator, including the victims. It is not the answer for all of society’s ills.
I know enough people who had sex at 16, and who, as adults, still believes it was consensual on their part, that I’m uncomfortable presuming rape in the case of a 16 year old who claims it was consensual.
I’m just fine saying that sex with a thirteen year old is rape. If they are both 13, i don’t think either should be criminally prosecuted (although they should, imo, be told to knock it off, with perhaps some non-criminal penalty) but an 18 year old with a 13 year old is rape in my book.