Not pit-level annoyance, just a peeve about pedo and rape hysteria...

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’d just like to say that I’m really sick of the over-the-top outrage displayed by so many at every imaginable instance of sexual activity in anyone, especially females, under the age of 18.

18 is an arbitrary, (but certainly useful) dividing line between childhood and adulthood, it is not a precise and reliable measure of maturity in every human being.

When it comes to sex, nature itself says that human females are sexually ready at puberty, which can occur at almost any age, but is usually 11 or 12 and up. Therefore, it is not sick, twisted and worthy of a lynch mob when men find themselves responding to post-pubescent girls, no matter what their actual chronological age is. The tacky saying about grass on the field is technically true, and it’s not honest to demonize men for desires that are entirely natural. Nor are men who find themselves sexually attracted to post pubescent girls pedophiles. They are ephebophiles, and there’s really nothing wrong with that, in and of itself. It’s how we’re built.

Furthermore, I am a 52 year old woman who was once a 12 year old girl, and I’m friends with a number of women whom I have known since we were all 12 year old girls, and I’m here to testify that each girl is different when it comes to her mental and emotional maturity, self-awareness, and degree of responsibility.

Add to this the fact that the dividing lines between too-young girls and ready young women is and has always been fluid and flexible depending on the time, the culture, the law, and the female herself.

**Now, none of this should be taken as me advocating for a change in the laws, nor is it me advocating for adult men to seduce or rape underage girls, or any other configuration you can think of that ends up with “Stoid thinks that fucking kids is cool!” because I don’t, and if you say anything that looks like this 50 posts from now you’re a liar and I’ll just post this paragraph in response. So let’s not waste time on it, ok?
**
All I’m saying is that we should be reasonable and honest about the reality of human sexuality and sexual development, and stop getting hysterical and outraged over things that really don’t warrant it. Because it’s not helpful. Not every instance of a 30 year old boinking a willing 15 year old is sick, twisted, and deserving of a lifetime in prison. It may be illegal, it may be ill-advised, it may be a bad idea. But it’s not on a par with, say, a 20 year old fucking a 7-year-old, and it’s not legitimate to equate the two.

And as long as I’m at it, I’ll bitch a little about rape, too: while the label “rape” may be justly applied to any sexual act that is non-consensual, not all rape is equal, or equally horrible and damaging. I’ve been a victim of “date rape”, when I was just a girl (a slutty girl who was inappropriately acting out her issues by giving it away to almost anyone) when a sailor I was on a “date” with forced me to have sex with him in a bathroom. It wasn’t a great experience. But I’m absolutely sure that it was a day in Disneyland compared to the experience of women who’ve been assaulted by complete strangers popping out from behind a bush with a knife, or suddenly appearing in their bedroom in the middle of the night.

So what I guess I’m saying is that we have to stop reacting as though every instance of sexual “crime” is equal. They aren’t. And I think it undermines the very real and horrible damage that is done by genuine pedophiles and rapists when we treat everything the same. It’s also an injustice to the “criminals” themselves, when they are all branded as “sex offenders” no matter the nature of the offense.
Now that I’ve gotten that off my chest Ill get back to work.

(The reason it came up rightthisminute was due to a comment (my reply) in a Cafe Society thread about Boardwalk Empire. Plus I’ve bene watching a lot of L&O SVU lately and I get a little annoyed at the degree of self-righteous morality policing that goes on in that show and is sold as the “correct” response. That’s all. Again: not cheerleading the idea of kids and grownups having orgies or men forcing women to have sex under any circumstances, just really tired of unreasonable and unnecessary outrage. Let’s tell the truth.)

2

Yeah… it smacks of a little “thou doth protest too much” to me.

3

I’m not sure I agree with you on all points Stoid, but I agree that people over react. My martial arts teacher regularly checks the sex offender list. I’m not sure if he knows what minor crimes can get people on the list (sex between two minors? on the list. Sex between an 18 year old and a 17 year old? That’s a sex crime).

I have a cousin that I will not be surprised if she gets pregnant before she finishes high school.

4

I would tend to agree, only because when I was an adolescent I quickly gravitated towards women that were considerably older. Because (A) they were more interesting, and (B) they could be depended on to put out, which I suppose contributed quite a bit to (A.)

The first few of these would probably be placed on the same level as “internet predators,” today, as they were uni age girls I met through local BBS’s.

Hell, still in contact with two of them, almost thirty years later. (Just friends, now.)

I’m not sure that it serves anyone’s interest to mandate that everyone’s first sexual experiences must involve two parties that are still figuring the whole deal out. (Check back with me when my daughter turns 13. :slight_smile: )

5

Its a tough situation to deal with. There are real sexual predators in this world, and then there are normal people who would still feel sexual attraction to young peope (post-pubescent).

Your point about the differences in the situations is a good one. By seperating everybody who crosses an inconsistently defined line as a sex offender, we are being counter-productive. I’ve often thought that majority age should be lowered to 16 in general, and I think in some states, 16 is the age of sexual consent. But that only addresses the statuatory rape issues. The fine line between consensual sex and date-rape just makes it harder to prosecute the actual rapes.

Your rant is a good one, but easily drowned out by pedagogy (which sounds like a sex offense, but isn’t, but is still offensive). There is a lack of common sense pervading this subject. I don’t condone rape, but we say things like ‘a woman should be able to walk down the street naked without fear of being raped’ instead of ‘a woman who is alone with a man is in danger of being raped, and if she has entered the situation voluntarily, it may be impossible to prove that there was no consent’. Yet I have to preface my statement with ‘I don’t condone rape’ merely to make the statement without being accused of bad intent, and then maybe I will be anyway.

As a woman, you have more freedom to discuss this issue without repercussion, so thank you for doing so.

6

I don’t understand—what is he checking for? To see if any sex criminals have moved into his neighborhood?

7

Are there any states that take a more reasonable approach to the he’s 17 she’s 18 so she raped him thing? Like at least something wherein you can boink anyone within 3-4 years of your age or something?

To add to Stoid’s point in a slightly different direction, I think it’s hugely unfortunate that pedophiles are attracted to children. Sexuality is a huge part of us, and what are you supposed to do if you happen to be wired in a manner that would damage children if you acted on it? That’s why I’m all for cartoon/CG child porn-- there’s at least an outlet for those people.

8

The fact is you have to draw the line somewhere. I understand the OP argument and I can’t disagree, but we as a society draw lines.

A child may be able to drive a car at 14, so do we let him? Why 18 for a drinking age? Why are your criminal records subject to being closed if you’re under 18? Why do you have to be 25 to rent a car? (I think that is the age) and the list goes on.

You also have to consider proportionalism. A 30 year old having a sexual relationship with a 15 year old is TWICE the age. He/she has lived twice as long. This is different from a person who is 30 having an affair with a 45 year old. The difference in years is the same, 15 in both cases, but the proportion isn’t. Twice 30 is 60.

I am a gay male and things were much different in my day. It was the late 70s / early 80s when I started puberty and I wanted sex. I had no idea how to do this. I didn’t even meet another gay man (that I knew of) till I was 19. But I tell you if I met an older man, who I liked, I would’ve done it and it wouldn’t have been rape.

The thing is we draw lines. They have to be drawn somewhere. At 18 a person has certain rights by virtue of being an adult. This gives him an advantage over a person who is 17.

It’s simply too complex to take each case. We’d have over 300 million cases in the USA alone (well more or less but you get the idea).

I worked with gay teens in a youth program and a lot of them would hint around with me. But I as an adult knew enough to say, “Sorry, come back after you’re 18.” Funny none of them did. You see my point? When they turned 18 and had a choice, they wouldn’t want me anymore. They realized they could have people their own age.

This is why we protect young people, they don’t have enough life experience to make good choices.

9

Sure, the Wiki article lists a bunch of age-range-related exceptions or reduction of penalties/charges to very minor.

10

Wonder if Stoid has talked to any really good therapists about being raped, because this rant smacked so much of explaining something away that I knew she was raped long before she got there…

11

I couldn’t disagree more. It is always exploitive and a 15 year old girl does not have the requisite brain development to give consent. Any 30 year old man who has sex with a 15 year old girl is not fit to live in society and by all rights should be made to dance at the end of a rope with his own genitals crammed into his mouth. Let’s not make excuses for predators and let’s not perpetuate the complete load of crap that young girls (especially the 12 and 13 year olds you speak of) are capable of meaningful consent. Biologically, they are not. People don’t get pissed enough about the sexual exploitation of young girls by adult males. This blase attitude that it’s just male nature is the norm. It may be normal for men to feel sexual attractions to teenage girls, but that doesn’t mean it’s normal to act on those attractions. That is pathological and predatory, and those are men who do not need to be taking oxygen away from the rest of us.

Your excuse of date rape is bizarre beyond words. Rape is rape is rape.

12

Maybe he dosen’t want them taking lessons from him, at least in classes that have both adults and children together at the same time?

13

HALLELUJAH. No one CHOOSES to be a pedophile! It’s a horrible thing to discover about oneself, and I can guarangoddamnteeya that there’s a whole lot more men (and women, they definitely exist) who are pedophiles in their minds than we ever want to know about, but they have sufficient self-control to never act on it. To despise people for feelings they have no control over is grossly unfair. (Something I see them do on SVU all the time; it’s never possible in that world for anyone to control their actions, and that’s not true.) If they act on it, different thing. They also should not contribute to the creation of child porn by consuming it.

But if they get their jollies looking at perfectly innocent ads for little girl undies, well, god bless 'em and I’m glad they can get relief somehow.

14

I don’t agree with her either, especially about the date rape bit, but also about older people having sex with minors. It doesn’t need to be a man sleeping with a young girl, though. A thirty-year-old woman has no business sleeping with a fifteen-year-old boy, either. Three or four years isn’t a huge deal (unless the younger party is 12 or 13) but the imbalance of power between a child and an adult of either sex twice their age is too much. That’s why people frown on teachers sleeping with their students, after all.

15

Wah the poor pedophiles. Give me a break. If the poor things are suffering so much, I suggest we give them a gun and a bullet.

16

Oy gavalt… :rolleyes:

I don’t need to “explain away” anything except maybe the fact that I am not a permanent basket case because a man forced himself on me when I wasn’t really up for it. That’s my point. Every instance of less-than-ideal sexual interaction does not lead to lifelong trauma! And in fact, I very much believe that creating a culture that supports this kind of reaction is entirely counterproductive to the end goal, which should be a healthy, mature confidence and ease with sexuality, and an ability to say no and mean it, right alongside an ability to say yes and mean it, and say exactly how you want it when you do!

It’s all connected.

17

Thank you for sharing - your point of view is noted and understood.

18

Nonetheless, it’s arrogant and offensive for you to dictate how other victims have to feel about it. Every human being is different. It’s ridiculous for you decide that your personal emotional response to a trauma is the only acceptable response. Date rape can be more traumatic than stranger rape to some victims because it can often involve a betrayal of trust that adds another level of pain. It’s not your place to tell other victims that they weren’t really hurt or that they’re “overreacting.”

Incidentally, did you report your attacker?

19

What do you suppose the reason is then?

What, you are so special that you can be raped and not be traumatized in any way by it? Then why are you compelled to tell a bunch of strangers, indeed the whole world about it lo these many years later if it had no effect or meaning on you?

Because your rant seems to be doing a lot of explaining about how some people’s professional field of study is meaningless and not to be valued at all, because you said so.

Which I seem to recall you did regarding lawyers too.

20

There’s definitely a certain segment of the population that will not hear you. But I do, and it reminds me of another situation that grinds my ass: she was drunk, therefore he raped her. Umm…no. She was passed out? Okay, that’s rape. But she was just drunk and agreed to something she wouldn’t have agreed to sober? Not rape, just stupid. Take responsibility…if you can’t take responsibility for the actions directly, then you gotta take responsibility for choosing to drink so much it made you stupid. Not his fault, and he’s not a rapist because of it…especially if he was drunk too!!! That is a kind of backdoor infantilzation of women that drives me crazy. Grow the fuck up, ladies, this isn’t the antebellum South.

Happy to oblige. :slight_smile: I also think men should have a legal means to opt out of being parents, I guess you missed those threads. :slight_smile: