I’d say it’s more accurate the implication is that most people aren’t going to act like thoughtless scum and it’s not worth the time and effort to write a more restrictive warranty when the company can adjust the cost to cover the small percentage of folks who abuse the policy. But companies do have to make significant changes to return policies, buffets, etc. because of the behavior of those whose actions were once several standard deviations away from reasonable become closer to the norm.
This. Availing oneself of the warranty replacement policy carries a PITA factor. The care recommendations are the consumer’s tool to mitigate that factor.
As for unethical behavior, it would be unethical to void a warranty and pretend (even successfully) that you had not. How does one void a non-voidable warranty?
How, exactly, are those instructions worded? Are they something like “recommended” or “for best results,” or do they say something like “required” or “only”?
I agree that it’s unethical to mistreat a product and then return it if/when it gets damaged. But I don’t know whether I would consider failing to scrupulously follow the care instructions “mistreatment.” Personally, I don’t usually look at the care instructions of my clothing—but then, I don’t usually buy clothing that is expensive or requires special care.
There’s no question in my mind that that’s (usually if not always) unethical. But I think it’s different enough that it’s not particularly relevant to the OP’s question—which I do think is a fair question, whatever its answer.
The whole marketing proposition with Darn Tough is that they are quality and last a really long time, and don’t need to be treated delicately. Even if there is a “best practice”. (For what it’s worth, I own many pair of Darn Tough socks, and they go through the wash with the rest of the normal clothes. In my experience, it doesn’t seem to negatively impact them).
Also, the moral equivocation some are doing in this thread between putting socks that have a lifetime warranty through a contra-suggested but typical wash regimine and using a no-questions return policy as a free rental service is an extreme stretch.
Yeah, I was pissed off that despite me clearly stating what I was looking for, I got a bunch of suggestions to do something I didn’t want to, and when I said why I didn’t want to, I got chastised.
I suspect that might have been due to expressing the opinion that it was unethical to not wash the socks using the recommended method. You kind of self-hijack with something like that.
That is people on the internet being assholes.
To go back to your OP here:
That on its own looks like a simple request for advice.
And this inevitably derails the discussion.
Now, I of course haven’t read the discussion, so it’s possible you really only opened with a simple request, and when people refused to give any suggestions because they asked why you care about wash instructions for socks, you gave your explanation that you feel it’s an abuse of a warranty to wash socks against their recommendations. Though in that case I don’t think you’d have ever gotten any real help in the first place. That just isn’t a helpful environment.
But from the info so far, to me this seems to me like you really screwed up in the way you asked the question. You overshared to such a degree that you shot yourself in the foot.
(Though at least in doing so, the sock would still be covered by warranty.)
Why the hell would the nice people at Darn Tough bother to tell you the best way to take care of your socks if they didn’t care whether you did or not?
Maybe it was because my parents grew up in the Depression, but I had it drummed into me that if you were going to spend the extra money to buy extra quality, then you damn well had to take care of it, whether it was not leaving tools out in the rain or not throwing wool socks in the dryer.
I’m just puzzled as to why a pair of socks would need a warranty. They’re socks; you wear them, you wash them, you wear them again, and you do this until they wear out. Then, you get rid of them, and get another pair.
Zippo lighters have a famous lifetime guarantee. And Zippo will make good on it; they always have, and are justifiably proud of that. But if your lighter breaks down, getting Zippo to make good on the guarantee means that you’re going to be jumping through a lot of hoops: packaging at your expense, postage/shipping at your expense, instructions not to include X, Y, or Z in the package, allow so much time … Might be more efficient to just spend $20 on a new Zippo.
Or the same for socks. You wear them, you wash them, and eventually, they wear out or somehow get ruined. So you toss them and buy a new pair. Even if the socks do have a warranty, is it worth your time, trouble, and money to get the company to make good on the warranty? Just get a new pair.
If I’m buying Darned Tough socks, I’m paying the extra money precisely so I don’t have to worry about how I’m taking care of it.
It’s sort of like how, when the HumVee was new, there was one at a car show, surrounded by velvet ropes so nobody could touch it. The whole point of a HumVee is that it doesn’t matter!
Agreed, but I buy cheap comfortable socks in bulk. And they’re all identical so as long as I have 2 socks I have a matching pair. Just a different philosophy.
Then again, I don’t go hiking. I used to, and having a sturdy pair of wool socks was important. I get not skimping on them. If you have the wrong socks or something goes wrong with them on a hike, you might have a very long and painful walk to get back to civilization.
I owned a pair of Levis socks decades ago. They also had a lifetime warranty and were priced accordingly. They were thick, sturdy, and possessed an underlying web made of extremely strong thread. I can understand why a company would promote this with a lifetime warranty.
I agree that most consumers who recognize the product’s value shouldn’t bother to avail themselves of their rights. I confess that I once sent in a knapsack that had a lifetime warranty after a few years of heavy use. Retrospectively, I think that was dickish, but not extremely dickish. I wouldn’t feel bound by wash care instructiongs though.
What about the lifetime warranty of the Patek Phillipe luxury watch? Yeah, that could be cashed in: their ads stress its multigenerational value after all.
I think the moral issue boils down to the implicit contract. The firm is assuring me, the consumer, of high quality and is assuming that I won’t waste my time. Getting a free luxury watch repair by a representative of the manufacturer wouldn’t be a waste of time for the consumer.
Buying ~ 20 pairs of identical socks at Walmart was one of my better investments. Not having to match socks is satisfying.
They left out one step: 4.5 You have to pay shipping on the new socks, and the credit they give you may not cover a new pair.
I was modestly disappointed when I attempted to replace one pair of DTs that wore out. Never woulda crossed my mind if I weren’t aware of their guarantee. I thought I could just get a replacement at REI, but no. It required slightly more than minimal effort to work through the system and get the replacement ones. IIRC, they cost me around $10. Sure, a lot less than a new pair, but not exactly the “no effort” replacement I expected. (Unfortunate punchline - as a size 11.5-12, I’m right between 2 sizes. The replacement pair I got was the smaller size - and is slightly smaller than I would prefer. If I had bought them in the store, I woulda returned them for a larger size.)
After that experience, I would never attempt a return with them again. Any sock - SmartWool, Darn Tough, whatever - eventually wears out. No big deal. DT socks are fine. But they are no better than so many others.
And those socks wore out on the bottom of the heel. The same way just about every sock I’ve ever owned has. Not sure what amount of gentle washing woulda changed that. Never crossed our minds to baby our wool socks when laundering. Never noticed any adverse effect until they inevitably wore out at the heel.
My standard comment WRT lifetime guarantees is that when the object wears out, they send someone to your house who kills you. There! It lasted you a lifetime!
On occasion we’ve returned something to REI that we used lightly - like a duffel or fanny pack. We bought it in good faith, but it just didn’t work the way we had hoped. When we were up front with them, they said, “No problem.” I’ve felt a little odd about that, but their response conveys that we were holding up our end of the bargain. If that is their policy, I’m not sure why I should “punish”. myself.
Now folk who buy gear with every intention of returning it, and use it hard. They are simply assholes.
Looking at their website they charge $20-35 for one pair! If I’m paying that much for one pair (I never would!) then they better well last a long time or I definitely would get them replaced.
It’s now standard practice at many retailers to capture information on the person returning goods, often by scanning the returner’s driver’s license. There are third-party companies (like The Retail Equation) that compile this data and try to identify those abusing the process. At some point the retailer may warn such customers when purchasing goods that their ability to return may be limited.
Or (more likely, it seems to me) put it in the fine print that they have the right to refuse refunds/exchanges to such customers identified by such companies. It’s unlikely they will be able to make that identity connection for certain at point of sale
I may have… I was just trying to avoid exactly what happened, which is the Darn Tough brigade shows up and says “Just get DT socks.” even though I specified socks that don’t have separate care instructions. And despite that, I still got that same answer.
See, I’m the other way around. I’d happily send a backpack with a lifetime warranty in, if it failed under heavy use. In fact, I’ve done so; my Jansport frame pack started coming unsewn back when I was a Boy Scout and went to Philmont. Turned it in under warranty, got another.
The thing is, I didn’t do anything that I knew was expressly against the instructions or recommendations. I used a frame backpack for what it was supposed to be used for- backpacking, and it started coming apart.
But with the socks, if I know there’s a lifetime warranty, and there are recommended care instructions, I feel like it’s somehow dishonest to disregard them, and then put in warranty claims. It’s like there’s an implied agreement that if I do my part and treat the socks appropriately, then the company will replace them if they fail. But if I go wild and wash them on hot, and dry them on hot, and they fail, it seems like I’ve deliberately broken my side of the bargain, even if the company will hold up their side regardless.
It’s nothing to do with Darn Tough, it’s with my own moral/ethical compass. And I’m not saying I won’t wear the merino wool socks when we do real hiking, and do the usual care. I was just asking if there were easier care socks that I could buy that were also high quality. (turns out Thorlo makes some that are polyester that are exactly what I’m looking for)
Darn Tough is a local (well, local enough) business for me, and I’ve always been excited about them in part for that reason.
Until very recently, there were a few local outdoor retailers you could go to and return the socks for a warranty exchange in house. I had a pair that I wanted to exchange this year, brought them in only to learn that they ended that partnership/process. And as you say, now I have to mail them in and put a lot of labor and some amount of $$ into the process. I have not, as of yet, returned the socks. But I also care a little less about brand loyalty. One of their differentiators to me was the feeling that knowing I could, if I wanted, bring my socks into the store and exchange them. I own many pairs of their socks, and have never utilized the warranty. Knowing that they’ve made it more difficult (and not an effort that I’m going to take) makes me more inclined to find similar products at a lower price.
