If I had gotten a call that went as **Pathros_1983 ** related, I might be as defensive. It does sound to me like Pathros was being intrusive. I didn’t realize until you explained to us why you had to know the reason for the late payment. Maybe if you had explained it to her the way you explained it to us…?
After re-reading this thread I have to admit that my reactions have been rather knee-jerk and stem from some lingering resentment of bill collectors past.
Pathros, I apologize and I’m sorry I called your job “sleazy.”
To try to add something constructive, I will just echo lorinada’s thoughts and say that people in debt often become panicky and defensive with bill collectors. It’s a humiliating experience and sometimes the circumstances leading up to the debt can be very personal and difficult to talk about even with close friends and family, much less a stranger on the phone. You may have been trying to help that woman but she probably didn’t appreciate that and felt like she was being judged. I know I’ve been subjected to sanctimonious sermons about personal responsibility from collectors after losing a job. I know that wasn’t what you were trying to do but that woman didn’t know it. If she had never been delinquent before it was probably intensely uncomfortable for her to talk about. Don’t take it personally. Her reaction was about her own emotional state and not about you. Maybe you could try to make it more clear that you’re on the other person’s side and assure that you aren’t trying to judge them. maybe you do that already.
Anyway, I apologize again for my earlier reaction.
I know Pathros_1983 was trying diligently to do his/her job but I don’t think he shuld have called her back after the first hang up. People get themselves wound up and in the balance of the priority getting payment vs digging into the underlying reasons for their lateness, if someone tells you point blank, in unequivocal terms that they will make the payment ASAP and try to get the details of how to arrange that, and that they do not want to discuss the reasons for the lateness, and the collection agent keeps pressing (past the point of conversational common sense IMO) for the underlying reason for lateness, I can see how that could be incredibly annoying for someone just trying to take care of a late bill. I understand Pathros_1983 was just trying to do his job and do her a favor, but there are times you reallly need just to back the hell off even if it will cost the client money as long as your end gets satisfied.
I don’t want to question your representation of your “contract”, but I do have to admit that I find it hard to believe that the contract or any collections business model would call for an agent to press so hard for the reason for lateness if the customer is essentially trying their best to cut you a check on the spot. Your job is to collect overdue bills.
My credit is as golden as it gets, but there was a time in 1995 when I was going through a divorce, and there were two credit card bills that were 30 days late due to my ex not paying them though I had given her the funds to do so. I talked with the credit card company collection arm and arranged to get them payment ASAP when I was informed they were late. If someone started pressing me for the reasons I was late as I was trying to get them payment, I might well be pretty incensed.
I really have to wonder where it originated that collection agencies think they are entitled to this information if the debt is being paid. Your job is to get payment from me. If your “contract” requires you to extract the reasons I was late, I sorry but that’s invasive of my privacy and really none of your business in any way, shape or form so long as I am satisfying the debt.
Nowhere does the OP state he works for a collection agency. The woman seems to owe money for an item she financed (a car?) through his company. If you owe someone money it really isn’t too much to ask for the reason payment has not been received.
I’m on the fence about asking for the reason for late payment.
The only use for it that I can see, is that if the reason for late payment is going to be on-going: i.e. a permanent change in income for some reason. Then it would be in the creditor’s interest to make changes to the contract in order to try to ensure that they do get their money back.
Otherwise, how is it helpful to know that perhaps the debtor got behind this one time or had unexpected expenses? I mean, isn’t it obvious that they got behind?
Anyhow, Diogenes I understand what you mean about sanctimonious lectures, or rude phone calls. They’re annoying. But let me ask you this: Do you work for free?
Lenders make their money by lending…they have the right to get paid just like you or anyone else who works for a paycheque. When they’re forced to make phone calls to collect, most bets are off and you’re lucky if they’re nice at all.
Don’t forget, it’s the debtor who has created the situation, not the creditor. The debtor could have the decency to phone the creditor and try to make alternative arrangements or somehow solve the problem which they have created for themselves and the creditor on their own initative.
If they don’t or can’t be bothered, then they shouldn’t be shocked and indignant when, in turn, they’re treated less than respectfully themselves.
You know, this is just a foolish statement. There are literally countless reasons why someone may not have the resources at hand to pay a bill on time. I suppose that you tell homeless people that they should “just get a house” as well.
I am reminded of when I first moved here and opened my new bank account. Because I was a new customer, they put a 10-day hold on my deposits. We are talking about payroll checks here (and yes, I know about direct deposit but that was taking a paycheck cycle to set up). Things quickly reached the point where I had over 2K in the bank, but was running my car on fumes and had not eaten in 2 days. Naturally, I went to the bank to discuss this situation. The teller’s solution was that I should “just have more money”. Please.
I disagree, Binarydrone. The simplest solution really is to just avoid the situation in the first place.
There may be literally countless reasons why someone can fall behind. But in truth, it’s pretty rare that the person would be unaware that they’re behind, or about to be. If there’s one thing a person is (sometimes painfully) aware of, it’s their financial status at any given time.
Likewise, we all know that when we sign a contract, that there are consequences for renegging. Like a poor credit rating, or collection calls. The knowledge of this should be sufficient for people to do everything in their power to meet their obligations. If they can’t, then it’s in their best interest to contact their creditors themselves instead of ignoring the problem and then getting all pissed off when the creditor is forced to do something about it.
In your situation, you knew you were moving, you knew or should have known what banks’ policies on new accounts are. It’s the same everywhere, isn’t it, and no secret.
There are any number of arrangements you could have made. Brought enough cash to tide you over, for one example. Maybe the teller just meant “more available cash” or something like that. It seems doubtful that the teller actually meant anything so stupid as, you should really “just have more money.” In any case, it seems to me that your situation was caused by poor planning, not bank policy.
It’s just simple personal responsibility & planning IMO.
Gee, Binary; there’s also the concept of the debtor (you know, the person who actually owes the money) calling the creditor (you know, the outfit that actually granted the credit) in advance of the due date and saying, “Folks, I’ve a problem with this month’s payment.” I’ve seen a number of people use that method when I was one of the clerical staff at a collection agency. I also found out that the “all too terrible IRS” is quite friendly about the same thing–I called them last month to ask to have my payment due date moved later into the month. Not only did that relieve some stress from life, it also keeps me from getting a nastygram from them.
But, go ahead, all you folks who condemn people for being collection agents. Keep on being jerks about it. As for me, I’ll go with the call in advance and work it out method.
Look guys, the point I am making is not that folks should avoid personal responsibility. I agree that if you owe a person or institution money, you just do. All that I am saying is that there are a lot of reasons that one can be late, and so I tend to think that this smarmy “why don’t you just have more money to tide you over” or “isn’t the best solution to just pay them” attitude is crap.
Sure, you can call and let them know what is happening. I have done so myself in the past (which is why I don’t get those type of calls or nasty letters). However, Monty’s experience not withstanding, my experience has always been that when I do make those calls that I am treated with condescension or even contempt. As if I am some deadbeat second-class citizen because I just don’t have the money at that moment (though I am making my very best food faith effort to meet my obligations). So, I understand why folks don’t make the call. They are hard, and can be a real blow to your pride.
Using my bank example, there really was nothing that I could have done in the way of better planning to make the situation better. Moving is expensive and (in my case) was mandatory. Then you get the fun stuff, like the new landlord wanting first/last and deposit now (as if their right) but the old taking the full legally allowed 14 days to mail me my deposit from the other side of the continent. Just having more pocket money kicking around couldn’t happen.
But by all means, return to your self-righteous bleating.
And just as an aside, I have not been condemning folks for being bill collectors. Just stating that I understand why folks can fall behind on payments and not call.
And if any of you are wondering what this means, see it is this cult that I have joined that worships food. We believe that food is the source of all that is good (especially when served with a nice crisp chardonnay). 
Calling your creditors to ask for a grace period might indeed be hard and a blow to your pride. Big deal.
You’re still responsible. You call them or you get the poor credit rating and the collection calls. Take your pick.
That’s life. How you see that as self-righteous or smarmy is beyond me. But so is blaming your boss (or whoever) for making you move, your old landlord for taking the full legal time period to mail you your deposit. Or blaming your bank for having well-known if inconvenient cheque-clearing policies.
Who said anything about having cash “kicking around”? I said, “personal responsibility and planning.” Do you think that people with cash find it laying around in the street or something?
By all means, return to your self-pitying bleating. It’s always someone else’s fault anyhow. :rolleyes:
I’ve dealt with bill collectors – or collections people with a company I owed money to – several times in the course of my life. I’ve experienced both good and bad. Sometimes it WAS my fault I owed the money; sometimes it wasn’t.
I still remember one goat-felching BITCH who screamed at me because the U.S. Post Office had never forwarded her mail (along with three months’ worth of my mail in its entirety – I literally didn’t get ONE SINGLE thing!) to my FPO mailbox and so I NEVER KNEW I OWED THE MONEY. I never even heard from my bank about it because the POST OFFICE DIDN’T FORWARD ANY OF MY MAIL!! The MOMENT I found out, two years later when I saw it on a credit report, I called HER – only to get treated lower than pond scum. If I could have gone to her state and ripped her fucking throat out, I would have. She had me by the cojones because I HAD to get the damn thing cleared up for a mortgage. And she knew it. Bitch. She extorted about 1200% more than what I owed, and claimed it was legal. I really wish I’d had time to hire a lawyer and fight her to the death. I think I paid over $600 to get rid of a $50 debt. It’s assfucks like her who make folks like Pathros’s customer go ballistic – she could have made Mother Theresa go ballistic!
OTOH, I’ve dealt with people who were truly delightful – wanting to do their best to resolve a situation. Sometimes financial difficulties land on us when we least expect it, whether we’ve done anything to cause it or not. Once, many years ago when I was extremely poor, I was paying off an IRS tax debt in monthly installments and the idiot mailman couldn’t figure out that I’d moved ACROSS THE FUCKING PARKING LOT and forward my regular monthly invoice to my new mailbox ONE ROW DOWN AND THREE BOXES OVER, before I even had time to realize I hadn’t gotten the notice, so 24 hours later a lien is slapped on my bank account and every check I’ve just written to every creditor to pay ALL my bills bounced. It was NOT a fun situation, but the vast majority of the folks I dealt with understood that sometimes shit happens to us, and were more than happy to work things out with me.
The folks like Patrhos who talk to me courteously will have the best chance of getting their money soonest. I take my cue from the person at the other end. When they treat me like a human being, I’ll be courteous back, and probably they stand a much better chance of getting their funds sooner because I’ll bend over backwards to live up to my obligations. But if they refuse to accept that sometimes shit happens and refuse to bend one single inch, then fuck 'em, I’ll hang in there tooth and nail.
My best win was when I got screwed having to break a car lease when I moved overseas. Wholesale blue book on the car was WELL above what the lease was worth, but they tried to claim I owed over $6,000. I decided to say fuck 'em and ignore it, which was fine since I didn’t really need any credit at that point. Several years later, when I really did need to clear the debt, I negotiated it down to less than 20% of that amount. It was still more than it was worth, but at least I didn’t feel TOTALLY screwed over the deal. And the lady I dealt with was delightful and charming, and also held up her end of the deal – cleared my credit report. Did I mention that the goat-felching bitch in paragraph 2 didn’t do SHIT after she got my money???
How could you owe someone money, but it not be your fault? YOU purchased the product, received the service, lived in the apartment, used the utilities, whatever it was, and didn’t pay for it. Yet that is somehow someone else’s fault? Huh?
Um, You did.
*underlining added by me for emphasis. *
and, in case you missed it:
and
I think that you may be generalizing some of the points that I have made to fit in with some pet peeve of yours (and misrepresenting my statements at that).
I do take responsibility for my financial obligations, pay may bills on time, protect my credit rating and in the rare event that there is a problem on the horizon, call to make an arrangement. And out of this you get that I am a self-pitying person that always blames others for my misfortune. Interesting.
Sure, that can happen. Like the time that we closed an account, made the last payment etc., and then moved–only to have an error in the system decide that we still owed the amount. Since we hadn’t left our new address, we didn’t find out about it until an agency called. We straightened it out right away with the company, but the agency still called several more times. Lesson learned: always inform of the new address!
I had no objections to paying the amount I owed. But claiming I owed $600 for a $50 debt? That it was my fault I didn’t receive their mail that the post office failed to forward, and that all they had to do was SEND the letter and then they could charge me with usurious penalties and interest?
That’s what I’m referring to. Somehow, paying 12 times the amount owed in the space of three years because my mail wasn’t forwarded properly strikes me as NOT my fault. I told her I was not objecting to paying the original amount, or even interest; it was the $400 in penalties that I objected to. But like I said, I was stuck and got screwed.
How IS it my fault that the post office failed to foward my mail when I’d submitted a proper forward notice?
“Brought enough cash to tide you over” does not mean finding it “kicking around”, as I’m sure you’re well aware. To claim that I said that is a misrepresentation of my statement.
“Kicking around” is your phrase, not mine. My point, again, is simply that you knew you were moving, period. You know the banks’ policies, period. That’s life. It’s not the banks’ fault that you went hungry for a couple days, it’s your own.
Equating milroyj’s common-sense statement that the simplest solution is to pay your bills on time, to telling a homeless person to “get a house” is a pretty broad generalization, IMO. Not to mention, a total misrepresentation of his/her statement.
:rolleyes:
It IS your fault because creditors are not babysitters. You are responsible for making your payments whether the bills make their way to your door or not. You should have made it your business to call her the FIRST time you failed to receive a bill, paid it in full and taken the responsibilty to make sure she had your new address.
You made this woman wait three years for a 50 dollar debt and you’re calling her a goat-felcher?
Sheesh.
So. let me get this straight. This woman calls you to let you know how she’s taking care of the debt. You’re going to get your money, regardless, but she needs to know if there’s a fee for the payment method she plans to use. She asks about the fee, and instead of just answering a direct question right off the bat, you ask why she’s late. She asks her question again, and you talk about how this will affect her credit rating, and how you’re just here to help. She has to ask you the same question several times before you’ll answer her. Is that correct?
Frankly, that sort of treatment would have pissed me off, too. If I ask someone a simple, direct question, I expect an answer before they move the conversation into other channels. Also, if you’re on the up and up, and aren’t making arrangements and promises you don’t intend to keep, why the fuss about her recording the conversation? So she wants to protect herself if you tell her you’ll waive a fee, or reduce something and then don’t. How is that different from you guys wanting to protect yourselves from people who don’t live up to their promises?
This situation could have been handled better on both ends, to be honest.
Exactly right, Triss.
I had a similiar situation happen to me. I purchased an expensive jacket with a seldom used store credit card. The address on the account was an old one, older than the one year mail-fowarding period, so I never received the bill, or subsequent statements. When I tried to use the card some 4-6 months later, it was initially declined, I was patched through to the credit dept., where I corrected my address. I then received the bill, and paid it the same day including interest and late payment fees.
I messed up, paid for my mistake, and moved on, never thinking of blaming the store or anyone else. I don’t get where Binarydrone or butrscotch are coming from.