Uninsured people who oppose healthcare reform

I was on the phone with an old friend last night. The guy has been unemployed for about a year and is without health insurance. He had a herniated disc and said he wanted to get surgery, but didn’t have the 50 grand to pay for it. He then started bitching about Obama instituting “socialized medicine” and shafting the little people.
I haven’t really talked much to this guy since high school, when my family and I still considered ourselves Republican. And on the few occasions I have talked to him we haven’t really discussed politics.
I didn’t say anything about his Beckian comments. The reason I called was because he was in the middle of an ugly divorce, hadn’t been doing very well emotionally and I just wanted to check in on him, and I didn’t want to get into a big poltical argument with him. Everytime he brought up how Obama was a Muslim, or how HCR will ruin us, or how he was going to take his guns away, I made a general statement about how the politicians of all stripes have sold us out, or just tried changing the subject.
This guy has always been a staunch conservative, but I just hope its his meds talking when he says shit like this. Still when I see this sort of willful ignorance, it makes it a little easier to understand why it is the teabaggers have so many followers.

IMHO, it’s a sign of real character when someone maintains his or her stance due to his view on the appropriate role of government, or the impact the costs will have on his kid’s generation (assuming he has some), or his skepticisms about the one-sided nature of the “reform” (ie, no tort reform) etc., even when his own personal situation would seem to dictate otherwise.

IMHO, it’s a sign of willful stupidity when you blame your problems on potential solutions.

Saw I someone wolfing down a shit sandwich fully convinced it was a Kobe steak, “real character” is not the first attribute that would spring to mind.

If he had said, “I can’t afford back surgery, but I still oppose health care reform” and offered up legitimate reasons why, then I wouldn’t have been bothered so much. But instead he offered up the bs teabagging line of reasoning of how the government is going to take over the entire health care system and flush it down the toilet. And that’s in addition to all the stuff he said about Obama being a Muslim and wanting to take his guns away.

“Character” doesn’t pay for necessary back surgery. It also doesn’t pay for counseling or for any other needed care. At some point, “character” has to take a back seat to practicality.

No comment on the muslim/guns stuff.

But WRT the healthcare reform, what you see as stupidity, he sees as ‘legitimate reasons’. Despite the uber-lefty/socialist leanings of this board, there is a whole lot of people in the US who feel that this is the start of the slippery slope, that the Fedareles will soon own 1/6 of the US economy, that care will falter, our debt to China will get even bigger, that we will saddle our children with bills that we refuse to pay now.

There’s two sides of every debate. Frankly, according to Pollster, it seems as though more Americans side with your friend, 52% opposing to 40% in favor.

Sure. Well thought-out, legitimate reasons for opposing health care coming from someone claiming that Obama is a Muslim who wants to take his guns away. I can see how that flows.

I must say I’m somewhat curious as to how Obama is shafting the little people by offering them health insurance.

And sometimes one side is just wrong; just because there are two sides doesn’t mean they are equal. The ones being wildly self indulgent and saddling future generations with debt are the capitalism-at-any-cost sorts; not the people who want what has been shown to work all over the world.

And if you think that the SDMB is “uber-lefty” then you have a really skewed idea of “lefty”.

wait… you’re saying that those against adding the massive money to the deficit, those against the HC’R’ being debated now, are the ones trying to saddle future generations with debt? You’ll have to explain that to me.

As for this board being lefty, speaking as a moderate, I’m going purely based on the number of replies I’ve noticed in response to debates. True I have no idea what the lurkers think.

Perhaps the other poster is looking at the massive deficit Bush & his pals began running up. Where were the teabaggers back then? (Health care is chump change in comparison.)

Yeah things are tough in Afghanistan–if only we hadn’t wasted all that money (and all those lives) in Iraq. Who can forget “Mission Accomplished”?

This board does skew to the left. And most posters here are above average in intelligence.

There’s no question that the prev admin ran up big deficit numbers. There’s also no question this one has shattered those records with their deficits.

But I don’t want to get off track here: how does being against the debated healthcare reform mean that you intend to add to the longterm debt? One might infer that being FOR the healthcare scheme then means you reduce that debt?

Hell, 74% of Americans now don’t believe Obama’s claim that the HCR won’t add to the deficit… including 53% of Democrats.

Compared to most of the rest of the world, no, it doesn’t.

I like Obama, but from my position he’s a radical right-winger. Still a step above the previous occupant of that chair.

Holy shitballs, Batman! My neighbor, Mr. Limbaugh, just told me that the President’s middle name is Hussein!

You know what that means, right?

He eats babies!

but only Republican babies.

This is down to the sad fact that if you push something into people’s ears for long enough, eventually it starts coming out of their mouths.

It’s not such a difficult trick to budget for decent health care for everyone. Lesser nations than yours are able to manage it just fine. You have an appalling system in place that is very lucrative for some people at the expense of a lot more. There are no rational arguments in support of this.

If the debate was honest and rational, you’d have had an efficient single-payer system in place decades ago, to everyone’s benefit but private insurers. Everyone would be covered, and the real costs would be about 50% of what you’re paying now to leave a significant fraction of your population out in the cold. The ideological opposition to this idea (on the basis that it is somehow “anti-American”) is incomprehensible.

You’re all getting screwed. Those who are fortunate enough to have coverage at all are getting screwed by paying twice as much as is sensible for the privilege. This is offensive enough on its own, without even considering the people who lose everything because they have the misfortune to get sick.

That the few people who actually benefit from the status quo have managed to convince so many of the people they’re screwing that they’re getting a good deal - this beggars belief.

Perhaps they were considering that the massive deficit that Bush “& his pals” (meaning, I guess, the Democrat-controlled Congress) created might be paid back without tax increases, while the massive deficit Obama and his pals is racking up cannot.

Actually, they are rather close - $700 billion for TARP, $787 billion for Obama’s stimulus package.

Probably true. But the one has nothing to do with the other - outright crackballs like Der Trihs are right in the middle of the pack, politically speaking.


At Thanksgiving this year my aunt got really drunk and yelled at me for about half an hour about how our government wants to kill her and force her to take a little blue pill and die when she turns 55 (I don’t know how she picked that number) and how they want to stop offering care to the elderly. Sitting next to her was her mother who is currently battling an agressive cancer that has filled her with tumors. What I wanted to say was, “When your mother’s cancer stops responding to chemo and she is so full of cancerous tumors that it hurts to move or breathe and she is lying in a hospital room praying for death come and talk to me about end of life planning and assisted suicide.” I didn’t say that though. I said she didn’t seem to understand the bill that is being debated in congress. Her response is that I am 27 and that automatically makes me stupid. Then my grandpa started talking about how much lower his taxes would be if we would just put people at the border with AK-47’s and murder all of the illegal aliens coming into the country.

I’m not ever going home for a holiday again.

Because, you see, something or other about illegal immigrants and Hitler.