They are doing poorer than a fry cook is, I don’t blame them I blame their Union, those workers depended on the teamsters to negotiate their pay, why would I blame the workers when they had no legal right or ability to negotiate.
The unions aren’t doing their jobs, that is my problem and would you quit with the strawman arguments.
It is good to see you went straight back to the personal attacks and still refuse to debate the facts even after your weekend break.
Your argument is part of the problem, when unions aren’t doing their job they do not get a free ride.
This is another reason Unions have lost power, they are more interested in maintaining this odd irrational love of the existing “Unions” as something greater them themselves even if those unions have changed from the oppressed to the oppressor.
This is also where my position is More pro-worker than yours…which apparently considers the union more important than the worker.
So, again, they are poorly paid by their employer but you blame the union.
You do realize those pay levels are negotiated by…the UNION.
There was no personal attack.
Sure.
You’re only pro-worker if you want unions to get better, rather than getting rid of them.
If it’s the former, then we agree.
No, pay levels are negotiated by the union and management. Negotiations require more than one party.
And in the absence of a union, pay levels are dictated by management.
Look at yourself - you’re talking yourself into blaming low pay and benefits on unions.
Sure, sometimes unions can be useless. And the employees can vote to decertify it and get a new one, or no union. If they don’t like their union, they should look into doing that.
Please go back and read my posts…this is EXACTLY my point.
But I don’t see any place where you do, you are arguing to keep them in the same corrupt ineffectual and continuously becoming less relevant for that.
The are becoming less useful for the employee they need changes to maintain their power which they are losing.
I want workers to be able to collectively bargain if it is in their best interests.
The point is that your strawman, claiming I was blaming the worker was well, a false strawman.
Why would I blame the workers when they had no right or ability to negotiate their pay.
The low pay and no benefits is the DIRECT responsibility of the union in this case.
In a non-right to work state you better bet I will blame the union if they fail their duty to negotiate wages.
If the union can do nothing what is their value?
Okay. I’m glad.
But how prevalent are unions that don’t do anything for their members? I think it’s pretty rare.
Me too. And they should decide.
The Chicago teachers’ strike will be interesting to watch.
I would love to see polling just before the strike, and how support changes if the strike goes on for awhile. Is there a tolerance among the people of Chicago for short strike? Will the unions lose support after a week?
I didn’t say that.
You failed to blame management. You know, the ones who do the paying, union or not.
Even there the union can be decertified.
Really…how many successful teamster desertification happen?
Management is a role no matter what, mentioning them would be redundant.
And it is irreverent because in this case it is the Teamsters who are to blame.
My union dues were never negotiated between myself and my union.
The union alone decided what amount would come out of my pay to support certain political causes and meetings and conventions and glossy newsletters.
I was always in favor of my union meeting with management to engage in collective bargaining negotiations for wages and working conditions. It’s all the other CRAP my union dues paid for which I object to.
I attended two union conventions. Too much of these conventions are “representatives” congratulating themselves, taking group photos, eating, and cavorting around the hotel. My friend put forward a motion to have the convention held every other year to keep costs down. She was soundly reprimanded for the audacity to express the truth that most of the “business” taking place at these annual conventions was nonsense. Nonsense that keeps dues high.
Collective bargaining of wages/benefits/working conditions = good union work.
The remainder = expensive crap & nonsense.
This opinion is based on my up close & personal experience which is why my perception of unions (the intended subject of this discussion) has deteriorated over the 30 years I was a union member.
Negotiations require more than one party, yes. A really good thing.
Fair enough. This thread is really about why some Americans hate unions from the outside and want to abolish them.
Don’t know. Doesn’t matter. Workers have a right to decertify.
Not when you blame unions for everything.
Again, no, it’s not. Unions don’t set wages, they negotiate them with management.
Ohh…where did I blame unions for everything?
A quick look in the paper and on job sites finds that the average wage for a CDL van driver in these parts to be around $17 an hour.
But thank you for pointing out one of the reasons Unions are losing ground, they are never “responsible” for not negotiating for employees, despite their legal requirement.
At the same time these vulnerable employees are free at any time (when the time eligibly applies) To publicly talk 30% of their coworkers to sign a document to ask for a vote for decertification.
That magical reasoning where it is never the Unions fault is part of their negative view in the public.
I do not remember reading on this thread that the general public wants to sweepingly abolish unions. If I am wrong, please show me who wrote that opinion. Limiting some distasteful union powers and practices and wasteful spending is probably the more accurate expression of the prevailing sentiment.
The OP asked a final question.
Lance, care to weigh in? Now’s your chance to contribute to the rejuvenation of the public’s perception of unions and their membership.
That is a false dichotomy.
Many people would love it if unions would adapt and become relevant and useful again. It is not an either or situation.
It’s not just about this thread. This thread is about public opinion.
Were you paying attention to Wisconsin and Ohio lately?
I don’t know the answer. You are better qualified to answer than me.
Some would, some wouldn’t. I think there are plenty of people out there who just want to abolish them.