I don’t think that’s what she’s saying. I think she’s saying that the only reason Okrahoma is not a Nazi is that he’s Jewish. That is, if he didn’t have specific emotional ties to Jewish people, he would have thrown them under the bus, because of the kind of person he is.
It’s a horrible thing to say, but not a statement about all non-Jewish Germans.
Upon re-reading… yeah, I think you’re right, Spice Weasel.
My maternal grandfather was in the Hitler Youth. ONLY because it was mandatory. His family left Germany, as did his future wife’s family. My mother, daughter of two german immigrants, was born here.
Again, don’t assume that all germans supported the Nazis, even if they were forced to be a part of its activities.
And along those lines, perhaps we shouldn’t play the game of “you would have been a Nazi.”
Other than “she,” yup. And it’s a horrible thing to say, but Okrahoma appears to be horrible people.
We shouldn’t forget how many ordinary folks joined the Nazi Party.; a lot of folks today would’ve joined if they’d been born to Aryan parents back then. When someone today spends so much energy disingenuously defending modern Nazis, it’s hardly an imaginative leap to figure out where they would’ve stood 80 years ago.
A lot of ordinary folks joined the Nazis in Germany because it was so much safer to do that than to protest the Nazis - it’s easier to say they shouldn’t have, but then, the people saying that now weren’t the ones who might have their loved ones taken away in the night or shot in front of them.
This is such a fundamentally sensible observation I’m surprised it’s so difficult for people to work with.
Um, okay. That’s not really relevant to what I’m saying, though, and I encourage you to take a second look.
I agree about social media and echo chambers and all that, but I do have a problem grasping abstract arguments without specific examples.
I’m not a person inclined to spew hate at groups of people for their ideology, but you’ve gotta draw the line somewhere. And I figure Nazis are a good place to draw that line.
I can’t remember if you were the one decrying the lack of tolerance for the alt-right, but I don’t think anyone owes these people tolerance. We owe them the legal right to spew their disgusting bullshit. I agree on general principle that political rhetoric has gotten out of control, but I don’t think this is a good example. I don’t think we ought to be nice to white supremacists for the sake of mutual understanding. I loathe these people and all that they stand for. I don’t want them to die, but I wish they didn’t exist.
Unless you are referring not to the alt-right but to the vilification of certain members of this board who are advocating free speech? Lol, this is why examples are useful. I agree plenty of posters are jumping the gun on assuming a vote for free speech is a vote for Nazis. I agree intellectual rigor is on the downswing in this country. I don’t think people are uncomfortable enough to resort to war, but I suspect this kind of terroristic-style violence and violence at protests are going to increase.
As for ‘‘who started it,’’ I think it’s pretty clear that people on both sides came to that rally with the intent to instigate violence. It doesn’t mean there is a moral equivalency between the two groups, because one of those groups consisted entirely of people with a violent ideology, whether or not they behaved violently in that moment.
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A lot of ordinary folks joined the Nazis in Germany because it was so much safer to do that than to protest the Nazis - it’s easier to say they shouldn’t have, but then, the people saying that now weren’t the ones who might have their loved ones taken away in the night or shot in front of them.
[/QUOTE]
I spend a lot of time learning about trauma psychology, and I don’t think people realize how incredibly common it is for people to commit acts they view as abhorrent out of sheer terror for themselves or loved ones. It’s easy to say what you would do in that situation, but the human brain in the midst of trauma is totally different than the rational brain we are so used to living with day to day. We basically revert to our most primitive brain functioning when so threatened. Even the way we perceive basic sensory experience and the passage of time is altered. Very, very few people ‘‘do the right thing’’ in those circumstances. And then they live with crippling PTSD and guilt over it for the rest of their lives. It’s tragic.
In general I am really frustrated when people expect rational behavior from terrorized people. I see it all the time in how people expect rape victims to behave, how people think they will behave in the case of an active shooter, how people interpret the police shootings of unarmed minorities (which are absolutely to be condemned, but way more neurologically complicated than people realize.) Most people, under duress, completely fall apart as reasoning beings. We are as primitive as our brain stems.
It says nothing whatsoever that indicates that the President is “a cowardly piece of racist-enabling shit”. Nice try, but massive fail on your part.
Umm… it is.
It aint. Not even close. It’s a copout for personal shortcomings and insecurities and would better be handled by a therapist.
Pretty much everything Trump has ever said or done proves that he is just such a thing. As is anybody who supports him in such cowardly actions. Or inactions, if you will.
Actually, after years of looking at the issue, I think that those are really extreme forms of ignorance. Sure, politicians can and did use them for their ends.
Yep. Because those calling for more violence are acting dumb and this is the Pit.
You, however, pretended to post a serious comment on the subject while misusing purported facts. This is still the Straight Dope and facts do matter.
(Cheer up. I am treating you as a serious poster while ignoring the several members of alt-right posting here on the grounds that they are incapable of actual thought.)
Hey, hey, Clothahump! The dumbest dumbfuck I’ve ever had the misfortune of coming across! Yes, sorry dumbass, but the president is a cowardly piece of racist-enabling shit. It’s the truth. I know that many Republicans, due to their cowardice and fear don’t realize this, or if they do they don’t admit it, but that aint my problem. You should probably put me on ignore, Asshole!!!
Afraid I can’t. Can you point out where it protects hate speech and inciting violence?
Also, “Specific definitions, freedoms, and limitations of fighting words vary by jurisdiction.”
And that’s an incredibly stupid thing to say. But then look at the source.
Indeed. It is very rare that I say someone would have put on the swastika in 1930s Germany. This isn’t rhetoric as usual from me. Consider the source indeed.