"Unite the Right" white nationalist march: Ugliness on full display.

[iiandyiiii]

@HurricaneDitka

I think there are more than one possible interpretation of displaying a Nazi flag. For example, I have a close friend that participates in WWII re-enactment. He happens to participate with an American armor unit, but they re-enact battles with people who are participating as German military units, as Nazis. That sometimes includes the display of a Nazi flag. The people that are displaying those Nazi flags are certainly not, in my opinion, calling for genocide, and I see a vast ethical distinction between what they’re doing and “chanting for the murder of Jews”. YMMV.

That’s pretty different than white supremacists marching explicitly for white supremacist causes carrying white supremacist symbols.

Do you think there’s a significant difference between marching with other white supremacists carrying swastika flags and repeating WWII era Nazi chants, vs saying “we approve of Hitler’s actions”? Is there any appreciable difference between expressing approval for Hitler’s actions and advocating for genocide?

[WillFarnaby]

@BlankSlate

Nice republicans chanting Heil Trump while making Nazi salutes good enough for you? This was a GOP march.

It is possible that these unwashed fellows are members of the Republican party, though you have no proof. We can make similar assumptions about the party affiliation of violent leftists in past rallies. Members of both extremist camps were likely not politically active in either party before this extremism saw a recent surge in attention.

If in fact this was a GOP march, there would have been thousands more individuals. It wasn’t, there were a few handfuls of extremists that may or may not identify with the Republican Party. Can we call the mass shooting by that leftist nut a Democratic attack because he was a member of the Democratic Party?

[Broomstick]

@Merneith

Pretending that Nazis chanting “blood & soil” - an historic phrase used to rally support for the institutional murder of anyone who wasn’t a Nazi - is not “calling for murder” is, in fact, supporting the Nazis.

On the other hand, for someone who’s family was not directly affected, who is not Jewish or Rom or homosexual or one of the specifically targeted groups, not knowing the phrase “blood and soil” or the hidden subtext within it is not so unlikely.

You can be ignorant of these things without being a Holocaust denier, or Nazi.

We should fight ignorance, not each other.

[JohnT]

Nm

[FloatyGimpy]

@HurricaneDitka

I think there are more than one possible interpretation of displaying a Nazi flag. For example, I have a close friend that participates in WWII re-enactment. He happens to participate with an American armor unit, but they re-enact battles with people who are participating as German military units, as Nazis. That sometimes includes the display of a Nazi flag. The people that are displaying those Nazi flags are certainly not, in my opinion, calling for genocide, and I see a vast ethical distinction between what they’re doing and “chanting for the murder of Jews”. YMMV.

I seriously can not believe how disingenuous you are being in this thread. You realize that everyone can see through your nonsense, right?

[Spice_Weasel]

@FloatyGimpy

I seriously can not believe how disingenuous you are being in this thread. You realize that everyone can see through your nonsense, right?

Seconded. It’s appalling.

[HurricaneDitka]

@iiandyiiii

That’s pretty different than white supremacists marching explicitly for white supremacist causes carrying white supremacist symbols.

Yes, it is. It was a bit of an extreme example to establish the baseline that displaying a Nazi flag does not always mean those individuals are calling for murder or genocide. Can we at least agree on that simple truth?

[WillFarnaby]

@iiandyiiii

That’s pretty different than white supremacists marching explicitly for white supremacist causes carrying white supremacist symbols.

Do you think there’s a significant difference between marching with other white supremacists carrying swastika flags and repeating WWII era Nazi chants, vs saying “we approve of Hitler’s actions”? Is there any appreciable difference between expressing approval for Hitler’s actions and advocating for genocide?

Is there any appreciable difference between expressing approval for Stalin’s actions and advocating for genocide? If not, then you would be claiming a large number of respected American liberals advocated for genocide. Academia was in love with totalitarian regimes in the 20th century.

Some murderous figures like Che Guevara are still idolized today. Should modern supporters of Mao and Che Guevara get the same treatment as modern supporters of Hitler?

[Spice_Weasel]

@HurricaneDitka

Yes, it is. It was a bit of an extreme example to establish the baseline that displaying a Nazi flag does not always mean those individuals are calling for murder or genocide. Can we at least agree on that simple truth?

Can you agree that carrying a Nazi flag in a white supremacist rally is advocating for genocide?

[HurricaneDitka]

@FloatyGimpy

I seriously can not believe how disingenuous you are being in this thread. You realize that everyone can see through your nonsense, right?

@Spice_Weasel

Seconded. It’s appalling.

I’m trying to have an adult conversation about facts. If you can’t manage that, I believe there’s already a Pit thread where you can go and talk about how terribly evil you think HD is.

[Ann_Hedonia]

Nm
Not personally directed but still better suited for the pit.

[Loach]

@iiandyiiii

Yes, but some in this thread (or maybe it was the Pit thread) were contesting this.

I guess it depends on the timing. I meant that between the release of his name and finding the picture information came out that showed his ideology like his Facebook page. The picture of him holding the shield was just another data point.

Before his information was released there was a lot of baseless speculation bouncing around the internet. One story that will probably bounce around the internet for a while named a young man who is very vocally left leaning. Apparently someone used the plate number from the media and tried to do an internet search and came up with the wrong name. Then they made a meme showing their “research.”

[running_coach]

@HurricaneDitka

I think there are more than one possible interpretation of displaying a Nazi flag. For example, I have a close friend that participates in WWII re-enactment. He happens to participate with an American armor unit, but they re-enact battles with people who are participating as German military units, as Nazis. That sometimes includes the display of a Nazi flag. The people that are displaying those Nazi flags are certainly not, in my opinion, calling for genocide, and I see a vast ethical distinction between what they’re doing and “chanting for the murder of Jews”. YMMV.

I have some straw I’m not using. You may grasp at it.

[Loach]

@HurricaneDitka

I’m trying to have an adult conversation about facts. If you can’t manage that, I believe there’s already a Pit thread where you can go and talk about how terribly evil you think HD is.

Yes you are just asking questions. But when those questions are answered and you still continue don’t be surprised when your motives are questioned.

[WillFarnaby]

@Spice_Weasel

Can you agree that carrying a Nazi flag in a white supremacist rally is advocating for genocide?

Can you agree wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt is advocating for mass murder of political dissidents?

[octopus]

@WillFarnaby

Can you agree wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt is advocating for mass murder of political dissidents?

Or how about Seattle’s statue of Lenin?

[Spice_Weasel]

@HurricaneDitka

I’m trying to have an adult conversation about facts. If you can’t manage that, I believe there’s already a Pit thread where you can go and talk about how terribly evil you think HD is.

Do you have an adult answer to my adult questions? Because that’s the core of my beef with your commentary. All of your attempts to find out what actually happened are not what is offensive. What is offensive is that you seem to be denying that carrying a Nazi flag at a white supremacist rally is an expression of direct support for the Nazi regime and therefore ethically equivalent to screaming, ‘‘Murder the Jews!’’ Do you deny that is the case? On what grounds?

[QUOTE=Will]
Can you agree wearing a Che Guevara T-shirt is advocating for mass murder of political dissidents?
[/QUOTE]

I don’t know anything about Che Guevara other than hipsters think it’s cool to like him, so no. Did Che Guevara have an ideology explicitly predicated on racial supremacy?

[iiandyiiii]

@HurricaneDitka

Yes, it is. It was a bit of an extreme example to establish the baseline that displaying a Nazi flag does not always mean those individuals are calling for murder or genocide. Can we at least agree on that simple truth?

Okay (that’s a “yes”).

I don’t think that’s the point, though. Can you answer my questions now?

[WillFarnaby]

@Spice_Weasel

I don’t know anything about Che Guevara other than hipsters think it’s cool to like him, so no. Did Che Guevara have an ideology explicitly predicated on racial supremacy?

No, just predicated on mass murder of political dissidents.

[IvoryTowerDenizen]

@HurricaneDitka

I think there are more than one possible interpretation of displaying a Nazi flag. For example, I have a close friend that participates in WWII re-enactment. He happens to participate with an American armor unit, but they re-enact battles with people who are participating as German military units, as Nazis. That sometimes includes the display of a Nazi flag. The people that are displaying those Nazi flags are certainly not, in my opinion, calling for genocide, and I see a vast ethical distinction between what they’re doing and “chanting for the murder of Jews”. YMMV.

Hey, don’t forget productions of The Sound Of Music, right?