Again–that’s something that gets settled in court. You don’t get to say, in the moment, “Well, I’m right and you’re wrong so I’m not leaving.” That’s not how it works. When they tell you to leave, you leave, and later on if a court decides that they were wrong to tell you to leave you’re awarded damages.
Like rumors that the passenger was playing possum?
We now have an explanation as to why United decided to apologize; it is afraid of losing market share in China:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/united-airlines-kicks-off-passenger-ticks-off-china-1491910982
Keep on rolling him out, and I will keep on pointing out that your expert of choice is an attorney for airline plaintiffs who is protecting his profession.
D’aconia said that what led up to the passenger being “unruly” didn’t matter, it only mattered that the passenger was unruly, and that that was the situation that needed to be dealt with.
So, my question to him is that if a passenger is intentionally upset (whether because someone on the crew dislikes him personally, decided to take a bad day out on him, or any other reason) that the event that led up to the passenger being unruly don’t matter, only the fact that at this time, the passenger is unruly?
I never stated as fact that he was. It surprised me that he recovered pretty fucking fast to be able to avoid the police and run back onto the plane. That fact that you find this not at all unusual does not surprise me, however.
The airline did NOT choose to use physical force; in fact, the so-called violence was by the police.
How do you know how fast it was? What is “normal” for a terrified person after (possibly) being temporarily knocked out?
Hardly. We have cites, you are relying simply on your opinion. Unless you think your opinion is evidence?
There are faults on both sides of this case. Was the doctor an asshole? Probably. Was United within their rights to have the passenger removed from the aircraft? Probably. Did they act appropriately in this case? No, because the DOT requires them to offer cash or a check as compensation, not a voucher. And the police officers clearly acted inappropriately. But it is United’s name being dragged through the muck and they should have known better.
“Protecting his profession” from what?
Yeah, that kind of insinuating speculation is basically paper-towel-tube territory.
No…but I might have an opinion or two about the quality of your cites and your interpretations therein.
if you don’t mind of course giving me the same consideration you give to those that share your point of view, of course.
I will bet Bricker will agree that a lawyer who is not representing a side should be considered neutral.
Here are his bona fides:
James P. Kreindler joined Kreindler & Kreindler LLP in 1983 and became a partner in 1987. He is a magna cum laude graduate of Dartmouth College, 1977. He received his J.D. degree from Columbia University in 1980, where he was a Harlan Fiske Stone scholar. He began his career as an Assistant District Attorney in the Kings County (Brooklyn) District Attorneys’ Office.
A specialist in aviation accident and terrorist litigation
Mr. Kreindler is a frequent lecturer on Aviation Accident Litigation and Terrorism Litigation throughout North and South America and Europe. He is the only Plaintiffs’ attorney, other than Lee Kreindler, asked to lecture at International Airline Transportation Association meetings.
Mr. Kreindler is a fellow of the International Academy of Trial Lawyers. He also has been recently selected by Lawdragon for their latest 500 Leading Litigators in America’s list.
Recipient of the 2009 Public Justice Lawyer of the Year Award.
Bar Admissions
New York, 1981
U.S. District Court Eastern District of New York, 1981
U.S. District Court Southern District of New York, 1981
U.S. Federal Courts, 1981
U.S. Court of Appeals 2nd Circuit, 1981
U.S. Court of Appeals 5th Circuit, 1985
U.S. Supreme Court, 1983
U.S. Court of Appeals 9th Circuit
Education
Columbia Law School, New York, New York
J.D. - 1980
Honors: Harlan Fiske Stone Scholar
Dartmouth College, Hanover, New Hampshire
B.A. (Magna Cum Laude) - 1977
Honors and Awards
Martindale-Hubbell AC Rating 5 out of 5
Listed in Ney York Best Lawyer
New York SuperLawyer
Professional Associations and Memberships
American Bar Association, Member, Committee on Aviation Litigation
American Association for Justice, Member
New York State Trial Lawyers Association, Member, Board of Directors
New York County Lawyers Association, Member, Subcommittee on Aviation
Past Employment Positions
Kings county District Attorney, A.D.A., 1980 - 1983
Fraternities/Sororities
Kappa Kappa Kappa
He has no cites so he is casting doubt on mine. All lawyers are crooks dontchaknow?
Calling the police is choosing to use force.
I’ve called the police on unruly customers before back when I was a fast food manager.
I’ve never called them because someone was taking up a table, even when we were closing and I needed them to leave before I could. I’ve never called them because someone was taking up a table without ordering food. I’ve never called them because they ordered $50 in food, then laughed and ran away. These are all things that have happened, and have in fact cost my company money.
The only time I called the police was when someone was making an unsafe situation. Threatening violence over hamburgers.
I make these decisions, because I am aware that calling the police is an escalation. I cannot use force to get someone to leave my property, but I can call others who are authorized to use force to get someone to leave my property.
You distinction that it was not the airlines that resorted to force is noted and dismissed, as force being applied is the only reason to call the police, so it was in fact the airlines decision to escalate the situation to using force.
Drumming up business, overstating claims, etc.
My former boss was featured in regular articles in the local alternative paper. Among other things, he would issue statements about how a 260 lb (built like a brick house) had every right to be intimidated by a 140 lb man (unarmed), how a child had a contractual right to be featured on a national sports program in a feature, etc.
Of course, I worked for him long before I discovered this, but after I had several opposing counsels tell me to get out when I could, because the guy was shady and a laughing stock, I did some research and left. Turns out, the local legal community somewhat egged on the author of the pieces, because they were the very definition of baseless, frivolous law suits.
And don’t get me started on his failed attempt to extort money from an insurance company when his client was suing under the “hit and run” clause of her insurance, when her car never made any contact with another vehicle, but instead she got spooked and served off the road. Yet, to laypeople, he could be seen as one of the leading attorneys in his field, because of the high publicity.
Just because someone is being featured prominently for statements, it doesn’t make them correct.
I’m a civil defense attorney. I have more reason than anyone to doubt the statements of plaintiffs’ attorneys. But I don’t doubt this one. That is not to say that I think they are conclusive.
Fair enough, I’m corporate in-house (thank god! No more billing hours, a reasonable schedule, don’t need to be a rainmaker, etc.), so I’ll defer to your thoughts on this. I was just more speaking to the point of, just because someone is well-known or oft-quoted, it doesn’t automatically make their point correct.
Journalists try to drum up interest. Promoting the debate, showing both sides and dragging it out will get a lot more eyeballs than just saying, “Case closed! Nothing to see here!”
I’m still think there’s a valid question as to what the term for him being escorted from the plane is, and how it meshes with the fine print associated with the ticket.
To be fair, **Czarcasm **in post #660 was responding to something specific that I wrote (that I understood Dao was not shown the contract of carriage when asked to deplane).
You get an A+ for the cut-and-paste.
BTW, I’ve heard that he currently makes a living suing airlines. Is that true? I so, I imagine the position he would take in this situation would be one that might bolster his own profession. Now, I’ve got nothing against this…but I wouldn’t mind hearing from the “other side”, if you know what I mean. Just to see if other lawyers not so tied to this might have something to say.