Thank you. Being fair is always the best way to go…unless you are damn sure you can slip one by, that is.
My word, Czarcasm, I don’t think UA’s own attorneys are as committed to defending this corporation as much as you are. Go get a sandwich, walk a goat, read the funnies…
Maybe he owns United stock!
I’m just glad I haven’t had to fly since well before 9/11. It sounds to me like it’s hell.
Get your facts straight.
DOT rules requiring cash compensation are for involuntary denials, and there’s no reports that for the passengers that were denied involuntarily (including the fuckhead in question) were given anything other than what they were legally entitled to.
The vouchers were offered as an enticement to find volunteers, and there are essentially no rules on what the airline might offer as VDB compensation, because it’s voluntary and so the DOT figures you’re a big boy who can decide for yourself whether something is and is not acceptable.
Wow. Just wow. Calling the police is now “choosing to use physical force.”
I strongly disagree.
Thank you.
I agree, but they seem to be the best we have at this time.
Don’t bring this stuff up in topics not about it, please, because all it serves is a subtle, small potshot at another poster.
There is no alternate universe where an airline is going to put itself in a position of choosing passengers based on who they think is more important.
Up_the_junction, are you from the US? If so, you should know better.
Assuming you are not, and for the benefit of others who are not conversant with this particular collection of Americanisms:
Referring to a black person as an “ape” is considered racist, and not that far from the “n-word”. This is sufficiently bad that even if there is only one or two black people in a group of a dozen referring to the group as “apes” is not going to end well.
Referring to police in the US as “pigs” is also an insult, but a pretty mild one. It has a long pedigree and is not considered “fighting words”. Most cops I’ve known would probably laugh at it.
Average speed of an airliner is about 450-500 knots, or around 575 mph, or 925kph.
Citations can cruise at around 525 knots, or 605 mph, or 975 kph. In other words, slightly faster than a commercial yet. So yes, in the hypothetical situation they can actually get the crew to Kentucky faster than United can.
(note: some inconsistencies in those speeds are due to my rounding, but it’s pretty minor. The citation is slightly faster, no dispute.)
I will also note that Chicago Executive Airport is about 11 miles from O’Hare airport, in other words, very close, and that citations and comparable other jets are available from the multiple charter companies at CEA (link is to one such company at CEA). I base that statement on having been a pilot based at CEA for two years (back when it was still called Palwaukee) and having to share taxiways, runways, and airspace with said corporate jets.
So yes, there are charter jets available that can get the job done, and they’re located a mere 11 miles from the airport where this trainwreck occurred.
First, even if he is a doctor who lost his license that’s irrelevant to what happened on the airplane.
Second, doctors who lose their licenses through misconduct can and do regain their licenses provided they discharge any legal requirements and work to get re-instated. We have at least one doctor on this forum who also had a “troubled past”, reformed himself, and is back in society’s good graces and using his talents and skills to help people. IF Dao-the-passenger is also Dao-the-naughty-doctor it seems his license has been re-instated and he is not a “former” doctor but an actual, current doctor.
And thirdly, the face that there is more than one “David Dao” in this world, and more than one of them may be an MD, just shows how pernicious a clumsy internet search can be in this day and age.
you keep using the word “inefficiencies” in a sentence incorrectly. they are overbooking specifically to be efficient. This is why airfare is so cheap.
They should be able to rely on law enforcement to enforce the law.
If you’re not flying around Christmas, Thanksgiving, or some other big holiday weekend, it’s almost always no big deal, IME; otherwise my wife and the Firebug and I wouldn’t keep on flying. Getting through security rarely takes more than 15 minutes, and often less than 5. Then you settle in at the gate, read a book or surf the Web 'til it’s time to get on the plane. Then you board, and if you’re at BWI, you’re in Tampa two and a half hours later without having to drive all that way. They give you a soft drink and (on Southwest) a pack of peanuts and a pack of pretzels on the way, at Tampa your bags probably get to the baggage carousel before you do, you pick up your rental car maybe having to wait behind one other customer, and next thing you know you’re buying Cuban sandwiches and guava turnovers at La Segunda bakery.
As I noted earlier, the stats Ravenman quoted suggests that, despite all my travels on Southwest, the odds are nearly 100-1 against my having ever been bumped from a flight involuntarily. And of the thousands of people who get bumped, this guy seems to be the first one to have resisted getting off the plane. (Of course, this seems to have been exceptional that way too: I gather they almost always bump you before you get ON the plane.)
I would agree that pretty much everyone acted badly.
I do question if a charter would be available at night on short notice. It Might not mater if a charter plane is available at a nearby airport. They would need a pilot certified to fly the plane too.
Interesting suggestion Johnny L.A., but I think a moot point.
IMHO, a world wide company, that has air travel as their business, should be able to cover such contingencies when a crew needs to get to another airport. Even in odd conditions. Scheduling and logistics is the real business of airliners. Emergencies happen, but no airliner can afford to have extra crew stationed at airports “just in case”. Or perhaps they do? Say a predicted storm, I don’t really know.
Again, IMHO, UAL should have raised the offer to get off the plane. Now that does come with pitfalls, as one person is ok with 1000, the next 1200, and so on.
Delta seems to have a good approach, with allowing you to choose your price to get bounced off the plane at check in.
This FUBAR was caused by UAL. Needing to deadhead crew.
And this rebuttal is just as “shitty” as the whole analogy.
If you whip out your card, purchase the shirt, put it on, leave from the cash register and then moments before you actually leave the store, the clerk comes up and demands that you return it – because of some fine print they have which no one really reads* – and have to come back the next day, then not a few people are going to be really pissed.
*Sure, tell me you read every single user agreement for all your software.
Yep. They can. And when a video goes viral of the police violently removing you from the store, that store is going to lose big time.
Which suggests that Delta has figured out how to handle it better.
They didn’t break a contract because they have a decisively one-sided contract.
However, they are under legal obligation to provide compensation, and in this case the legally mandated amount was higher than the what United was attempting to avoid.
People or corporations which call the police in order to avoid their legal obligation gather no sympathy from me.
I’m not so sure. If the random draw brought up a mother traveling with 6 children under 10 would the result have been the same?
Interesting comment to this Fox News editorial:
Maybe this is getting closer to what Oscar Munoz feels needs to be fixed?
Without a Plan B in case there was a problem. IOW, corporate mismanagement.
Apparently United never heard of a plane being full or seats being non-expandable.
And the problem may have been as simple as UAL not informing the deadheading crew in time. The crew not getting the message. Or the deadheading crew not confirming it or a dozen other things. Or forgetting that they need to be in Louisville.
And, of course, not having a plan B.
I said earlier that UAL should just up the price to have a passenger volunteer to get off the plane. That would have solved this entire FUBAR. If and as the bean counters at UAL see this is costing money, they would find a way to fix it without causing a pretty much worldwide shame on their company.
Why stop at $2000 if there’s no upper limit? Why would anyone settle for $2000 when they could get a million?
“Had they used their algorithm to select four passengers who would not board – actually in advance of those passengers boarding – they would be innocent. That’s not what happened.”
Actually, they would not be innocent. Rule 25 of United’s Contract of Carriage which allows denial of boarding can be used only for situations where the plane is “oversold”. United now admits that the plane was not oversold when they allowed the passenger to board. The airline simply wanted seats for non-paying employees who showed up at the last moment. No other part of the Contract allowed United to deny the booted passenger to board (i.e., to bump him before he boarded), nor does Rule 21 give them the right to force-ably boot him after he had been rightfully seated.
United is going to pay out the nose to settle with this guy.
Because you know that if you hold out for too much, some other passenger will jump in first and accept a much smaller amount.