I’m quite lost as to what the point of this war is. Normally you know WHY a war is being fought even if you disagree with it. I even know why Russia invaded Ukraine, even though Russia lies about it a lot.
It’s unclear to me if even the US government knows precisely why they’re doing this. We’ve been presented with many, sometimes contradictory, reasons.
Ok, now this is just getting ridiculously stupid and self destructive now:
Why pull Turkey (or even NATO) into this?
That screenshot is partial and I can’t find the original CNN article. Do “civilians” also include members of the Iranian government?
(Not the children, of course. Spare me your gotchas.)
As far as Israel is concerned, it’s simple: Iran is a threat. They’ve attacked us before, they’ll probably attack us again, so we have to do what we can to make them, well, less of a threat. If it doesn’t work this time, maybe it’ll work next time.
Or maybe they’ll want to make peace with us.
That said, I’m 100% sure this is happening now because Trump dragged Netanyahu into it. Not that I blame Bibi (and it really hurts me to write that) - as soon as America attacked, Iran was guaranteed to attack Israel in return, so in for a penny, in for a pound. As for why Trump decided to start fighting… how the fuck would I know? It’s Trump.
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to find that CNN article. I found this, but it’s paywalled:
They compile and verify all the incident reports and make a preliminary classification of the victims into civilians, military, and undetermined. I did not see (or maybe I missed?) a clear statement on whether they classify politicians as civilians. I suppose if anyone is taking part in hostilities, they would not be, but the government also includes people like the Minister of Agriculture.
What about the state intelligence apparatus? For instance, are members of the CIA civilians? They’re not in the military, after all. What about workers in a munitions plant?
Details about the US killed so far:
If you support this war, would you still support it if it meant the death of your son/daughter/sibling/parent? Would you die for this war? Or just risk others?
If the U.S. is focused on this war, why spread yourself thin? It seems unwise.
We have been electing for years, in the USA, people who think that there should be war surrounding Israel.
They’ve finally gotten enough power to really pull it off.
Anyone who thinks this is in support of the Jewish population of Israel is deluded. I expect Bibi thinks he can use it to his benefit, but I think he’s wrong.
Ayup.
We also knew, or most certainly should have known, when Iranian schools are in session and when they aren’t.
Mostly likely, it’s Trump wanting to feel “strong” and so launching an attack against an easy target. The casualties and long term consequences mean nothing to him, stroking his ego is what’s important.
The people surrounding him on the other hand just want to kill Muslims in general for being the “wrong” religion, and Iranians in particular for daring to throw off our pet dictator and getting away with it.
Israel is just a minion.
I don’t think Iran is as easy a target as Trump and Hegseth were thinking they were. Iran has been planning for this for decades, and their response to the initial attack has been cunning. They’re using cheap drones to attack us, and our response has been to deplete our stock of five-million-dollar missiles. They’ve got mountains, underground missile cities, a desperation to defend their land from the Evil West, and the largest and most diverse missile stockpile in the Middle East. They’ve also got a willingness to bomb the shit out of their neighbors.
If Trump wanted an easy target to make himself feel strong, perhaps fuckin’ Iran wasn’t the best choice.
Trump being stupid and wrong isn’t exactly a new thing, however. And he’s surrounded himself with stupid people whose main qualification is sucking up to him.
Rational threat assessment isn’t something you’ll get from that.
And I guess we’re going after Iranians everywhere. Sets a great precedent!
What justification is there for blowing up a ship in the Indian Ocean that wasn’t a threat?
Because it’s a war and it was a threat. I don’t support any of this but if this war is justified then the sinking is fair game. Do you really think that it wasn’t going to take part at some point?
More alarming is this. Republican Senator Comer said that boots on the ground may be “unavoidable” and Trump hasn’t taken it off the table.
Agreed. This war is stupid, but it’s bog standard to go after the enemy’s military kit wherever you find it.
Iran’s general strategy for the last many decades has been to terrorize everyone, everywhere. Subsequent to the US attack, their response was to fire missiles at everyone, everywhere.
Even if they haven’t attacked anyone in the Indian region yet, it’s probably reasonable to think that they’re liable to do so.
And even if they weren’t, they’re still part of the enemy force. It’s not like they’re going to go off and pick up orphans to raise as monks. Whatever action they take, it would be to advance the agenda of the current Iranian state.
Many people get it the wrong way around, but it was actually Saddam Hussein who started the Iran - Iraq war in 1980 by invading an “easy target” with US weapons and support. Iran had just got the mullahs, exiled the Shah, lost US weapons upgrades, maintenance and support in general, how hard could this be? In a matter of weeks they would depose the mullahs, settle in their favour the old frontier disputes and become the heroes and darlings of the west. Easy peasy.
The war went on for eight years until a cease fire was brokered. Over half a million people died, including many civilians. Saddam bombed cities with chemical weapons, the mullahs sent children into minefields, trench warfare had a ghastly comeback. When peace broke out the border had not changed and the mullahs were firmly in power. I don’t think Saddam Hussein got even one of his objectives despite all the help the West in general and the USA specifically could give him.
The Iranian people know how to endure hardship. It can be debated whether this a virtue worth having, but it won’t make life easy for the attacking nations.
The problem with that analogy is that Iran’s regime does not currently have the popular support it had at that point.