Update - Stepfather pleads to child molestation charges. Need advice.

[Bridget_Burke]

@astro

The point I am trying to make is that the real world threat that the BF’s children are in imminent danger of molestation needs to be assessed with some degree of common sense. The stepfather sounds like a world class SOB but the risk distinction between him (hypothetically) getting drunk and fingering a nubile 14 year old he was unfamiliar with vs seducing a known minor is fairly important in assessing wheter he’s going to be considered a true predatory threat to the kids.

I’m not a parent but I wouldn’t want any child I cared about near somebody who got drunk & fingered a nubile 14 year old.

Or around somebody who thought that was no big deal.

[Cat_Fight]

@Bridget_Burke

I’m not a parent but I wouldn’t want any child I cared about near somebody who got drunk & fingered a nubile 14 year old.

Or around somebody who thought that was no big deal.

Wasn’t she 13? All of grade seven.

[Dangerosa]

I don’t have advice other than what has been said, just want to say I’m sorry you and your significant other have to go through this.

[oboelady]

Boy do you, or BF actually, have a chore ahead of you. I agree 100% to go for custody. That’s a no-brainer. Achieving that, is the hard part.
Here’s the line you have to walk - to get custody of the children, you have to convince the judge that she is no longer fit. But, the children know and love their mother, so you can’t say anything bad about her in front of the kids or you will alienate them. Kids don’t like it when you attack their mother.
Also, if the only income the mother is going to have is child support, you better believe she will fight as hard as she can to maintain custody so that money keeps coming in.
Good luck.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

This is a troubling case in many respects. I think the kids are in for heartache no matter what the outcome is. Very sad.

I wonder what his lawyer thought the implications for his wife’s custody arrangement might be? It made his no-contest plea risky, it seems to me.

Still, it’s not clear to me that the kids are in danger of sexual predation or molestation, as so many people seem to assume. I don’t know what kind of scumbag Stepfather is, but isn’t it possible to be the kind of scumbag who would hit on an unrelated teen but not make any move towards the (step)children with whom he has a strong familial and parental bond?

Of course, that’s a chance many parents would be uncomfortable taking–and as a Mom I entirely understand the desire to get those kids outta there. But the assumption that the kids will all going to end up groped (or worse) by StepDaddy feels flawed to me.

[Marley23]

@astro

The point I am trying to make is that the real world threat that the BF’s children are in imminent danger of molestation needs to be assessed with some degree of common sense. The stepfather sounds like a world class SOB but the risk distinction between him (hypothetically) getting drunk and fingering a nubile 14 year old he was unfamiliar with vs seducing a known minor is fairly important in assessing wheter he’s going to be considered a true predatory threat to the kids.

From one of the earlier threads:

@nyctea scandiaca

Stepfather was recently arrested on child molestation charges - the alleged victim is the 14-year-old daughter of Mother and Stepfather’s friend.

So this sounds more like “seducing” or abusing a known minor, and one who is the same age as one of Greg’s children.

nyctea scandiaca also said

About how we found out about the charges against Stepfather: The Mother did not tell my boyfriend (the children’s father) about the charges. We discovered it in the crime section of a local newspaper, which described his arrest and the charges against him. We found the article after we Googled Suspect/Stepfather’s name. You may be wondering, why did we Google his name? Well, call it a hunch or intuition… The children’s mother was acting strange, and the kids were acting moody and sullen, and we had a hunch that something was going on in the home. Knowing that the mother has a long history of being secretive, dishonest, and not forthcoming, we Googled the guy’s name and found this bombshell. The scary thing is that if we hadn’t found out ourselves, the mother would have undoubtedly NEVER had told us about it.

I’m not a parent, but to me, it’s pretty obvious Greg needs to try to get his kids, and not leave them in a situation where things could get worse either through being around this convicted dirtball, or with the wife who is covering for him.

[gwendee]

@CrankyAsAnOldMan

Still, it’s not clear to me that the kids are in danger of sexual predation or molestation, as so many people seem to assume. I don’t know what kind of scumbag Stepfather is, but isn’t it possible to be the kind of scumbag who would hit on an unrelated teen but not make any move towards the (step)children with whom he has a strong familial and parental bond?

Even if it could be ascertained with any degree of certainty that Stepfather would not present any physical/sexual danger to the children who lived in his house (and I don’t see how you could) I wouldn’t want him in a position to take part in the socialization of my children.

Even if any of astro’s mitigating circumstances actually existed the best that makes Stepfather is a guy with poor judgement. I don’t want a guy with poor judgement raising my kid. The “no contest” plea inclines me to believe that he is guilty of more than a mere lapse in decorum.

[Eureka]

While I agree with the sentiment that Greg should try to get his kids (and also agree with the idea suggested above that perhaps Greg should do so because of generally bad parenting by his ex-wife rather than the assumption that they are in iminent danger of molestation by stepfather), I think you and Greg need to think about a Plan B.

Plan B, in my book, is all about figuring out how to develop closer relationships with the kids, help make sure they are emotionally as well as physically healthy, make sure if something horrid happens to the kids (from an outside source as well as from Stepfather and the ex-wife) they know they can come to Greg for help . . . that sort of thing.

I’m not a parent, so I can’t provide more detailed suggestions. But I think that it is truly sad when children get the impression that they don’t matter much to the parent without the majority of physical custody.

[Green_Cymbeline]

Thanks for all the responses, let me respond to some of them, one at a time…

@WhyNot

Where do the kids want to be? I’m not saying it should be entirely up to them, but if this is an isolated incident, is it worth uprooting them across state lines, losing all their friends and schools and social networks, not to mention a stay at home mother, to come live with a dad who works full time? They’ve already indicated that they love their stepfather and want him to live with them once.

@Really Not All That Bright

Americans all seem to have the idea that it’s somehow going to cause deep psychological trauma if you have to move while you’re a kid.

“But they’ll have to go to new schools, and make new friends! They’ll be miserable!”

No, they’ll be fine. They’re children. They will adapt- and in the long run it’ll be easier for them

This is a concern of mine. Twice they have been interviewed by a licensed clinical social worker (ordered by the judge in the custody matter) and in the reports of these interviews the kids revealed that their mother (Susan) has repeatedly used the threat of “going to live with your father” as a scare tactic. She has also implanted in their minds the thought that “your father is going to try to make you move with him!” - again, as a ploy to scare them.

Her ploys have worked. They are very loyal to their mother, and say they don’t want to be “taken away” by Greg. One boy even said in the interview he wishes Greg “would just leave them alone.” It is my strong suspicion that he has seen his mother get upset at Greg’s attempts for custody, and he in turn mimics her unhappiness and fear.

So yes, if Greg does get custody, they will be resistant and upset at first. However, knowing them, that probably won’t last long. They love visiting Greg and always have a great time with him. They will all be able to have their own rooms, and without their younger siblings around, they won’t have to spend as much time helping to take care of them - allowing them more time to be kids.

ALSO, re: WhyNot’s concern that they will be “uprooted.” Did I mention that they have moved 6 times in the past 4 years??? New houses, new schools… one school year they were in 3 different schools. Why? Just because Susan felt like it. She never really gave a reason, she just liked to change houses a lot (she rents).

[Green_Cymbeline]

@StarvingButStrong

So far nobody had mention that you’re not only talking about taking the children away from their mother to a basically unknown father, but you would be tearing up sibling bonds as well. And, trust me, the bonds between siblings can be just awfully strong.

Plus, think about the three children that will be left behind. Shouldn’t they be protected from this child molester as well? How guilty will your children feel down the line if they learn that one or more of the left-behind siblings gets molested?

Is there someway the threat to take away the three oldest children could be used to force the mother to separate from the stepfather? That would at least keep mother and all six children together, probably less hurtful to them all.

This is an ethical dilemma that has crossed my mind. First, let me say that Greg is not a “basically unknown father.” He lived with them full-time until the youngest was about 2 or 3, then after that he had them every weekend, until he moved out of state two years ago. He flies out to California to visit them (twice in the past month alone) and he talks on the phone with them several times a week.

But removing them from their siblings is an issue to be considered. But fundamentally, Greg has no moral or legal responsibility for Susan’s other 3 kids with Stepfather. He has to put his kids first.

There are many difficulties that I forsee in keeping them all together. Mainly, that I don’t think Susan will leave Stepfather… I think she truly believes he is innocent, she loves him, and she needs him financially. My biggest concern is how she will manage financially if the Stepfather goes to prison. Actually, even if he doesn’t go to prison, we are told he will lose his job because his employer won’t employ felons. And the guy has few skills, no college education, and the job market is very weak. How will she manage? I have no idea.

[Cat_Fight]

Oh wow, what a screwed up situation. Those poor kids.

[Green_Cymbeline]

@Mama Zappa

I wonder if the custody hearing can be moved for continuance on the grounds that the sentencing hearing (the next day), is HIGHLY material to the custody decision. Stepfather not in jail = “kids need to be moved NOW”. Stepfather IN jail = far less urgency on the part of the judge deciding the custody arrangement, and less ammunition on Greg’s part to get the judge to order a change.

Greg will definitely try to have the next custody hearing moved. I don’t know if he will be successful, though, because in the past it usually takes months to schedule hearings.

@Mama Zappa

It’s hard to imagine stepfather pleading no contest, unless a) this is part of a plea-bargain to keep him out of jail, and it’ll make the hullabaloo die down sooner, and/or b) he knows they have sufficient evidence to convict him of something should it go to trial and his penalties are less if he plea-bargains. In fact, I suspect stepfather knows what sentencing will be recommended already - a case of which I have some distant personal knowledge, the man in question knew he’d get xx years of jail time, vs. xx+yy if it went to trial and he was found guilty. Though the formal sentencing hearing wasn’t until a month or two later, it was pretty much known what the results would be.

It’s hard to get concrete reliable information about the details of his plea, but we’re unsure that it’s a formal plea bargain with the prosecutor. Apparently he was offered a plea bargain a few months ago, and he refused to take it, and it was taken off the table. From what I have pieced together, I believe that his lawyer is going to ask for leniency based on that 288.1 psychological evaluation, and they are hoping - but not guaranteed - that the judge will go along.

And keep in mind that Susan is getting all of her information from Stepdad, as she was not at the hearing when he entered the no contest plea. It is very likely that Stepfather is telling her the absolutely best case scenario as told to him by his attorney, so that Susan will stay calm and not have a breakdown.

@Mama Zappa

Here’s a thought: If stepfather does do jail time, could the mother move East with all the kids? This has a number of advantages in my mind:

• Clear physical removal from the stepfather’s arena
• Keeps all the siblings together
• Allows greater visitation with Greg, while leaving the physical custody intact
• Stepmother would have to find a job to support the kids anyway, and the DC area is somewhat less hard-hit than some other parts of the country.

This wouly definitely be IDEAL, but I strongly doubt it will ever happen for several reasons. (1) Susan’s family (mom, dad, siblings) all live nearby and she is heavily dependent upon them, especially her parents. (2) I believe it is very unlikely that Susan will seek to get a job because (a) she has never worked before and has never shown any interest in working, and (b) she has a 1-year-old and a 2.5-year-old and child care would probably to be costly.

Let me just add that Greg cannot, under any circumstances, move back to CA. He has a high-level government job which is located here.

[Green_Cymbeline]

@Mama Zappa

Forgot to ask, didn’t see it here, perhaps it’s made clear in the earlier threads: what are the genders of Greg’s children? If the 13 year old is female, I’d sure hope a judge would think “Hmmm… pled no contest to messing with a 13 year old girl, wonder if he has access to any other 13 year old girls… hellOOOOOOOO!”.

Greg & Susan’s kids are:
Boy, 13
Boy, 11
Boy, 9

Susan and Stepfather’s kids are:
Boy, 5
Girl, 2.5
Girl, 12 months

[Green_Cymbeline]

@Quartz

OTOH how is the mother going to support the children with the stepfather in jail?

As I mentioned above, this is one of my major concerns. Greg already pays the maximum child support amount, but when Susan loses Stepfather’s income, the family’s ONLY income will be Greg’s child support. It’s a lot - plenty to support 3 kids - but not nearly enough to support a family of 8. I have no idea how Susan will support the family. I do think her parents can/will offer her some financial support, but they’re not rich by any means and it wouldn’t be a lot.

Did I also mention, Stepfather has another child that he pays child support to? She’s an approximately 11-year-old girl. Yep. He has no visitation with her, however, and I don’t believe they have even seen each other since she was an infant. But he does pay support to the girl’s mother.

[HawksPath]

I think he should go for the custody hearing now. I think any judge worth his salt will understand the situation and try his/her darndest to really do what’s best for the children.

From what I’ve read, the mom is showing signs of a co-dependent (similar to the family of an alcoholic) and even if the stepfather is away in jail she’s raising the kids to be victims. Mom may need professional help and same with kids. You might be able to hire a psychologist as an expert witness to talk about this as another reason the kids need a change of situation to a loving stable father.

[Green_Cymbeline]

@astro

Before you start getting yourself ready to go to war I think you really need a lot more details about the context of the offense in order to make a rational determination of whether he is an actual imminent threat to the girls. He may be a cheater and an SOB, but whether he is an actual danger as a predatory pedophile may be a more involved judgement.

Based on your links and reading between the lines it sounds like may have had oral or digital (ie fingers) non-intercourse sexual contact with a 14 year old. While it is irrelevant legally, it’s fairly important re assessing risk to the other kids to know if:

1: He understood she was 14 - some 14 year old girls look considerably older than their age

2: What is the context - were he and she drunk-drugged or not etc.

3: Were these people (mother and daughter) he had any prior contact with and could reasonably be expected to know the 14 year olds age and history.

None of the above matters WRT the legal judgement that he had sexual relations with a minor, but could be important is assessing his probable risk as a sexual predator of young children.

This is an interesting side to the story. We don’t know the exact details of what Stepfather did, and we were hoping to get a better idea from the testimony at the criminal trial (which Greg was going to attend). The best detail we have is the text of the police report which the judge in Greg’s custody case read, but Greg did not get to read. Greg’s lawyer relayed to him some details in the police report which involve allegations of digital penetration of the girl’s genital region, a “massage” in inappropriate areas (possibly including the breasts and genitals) and very inappropriate graphic sexual conversation with the girl.

The girl was 13 at the time, and the daughter of a couple with whom Stepfather and Susan were good friends. Stepfather knew, without a doubt, how old she was. Also, I do not think he was drunk or high, as he has no history of drinking or drugs at all.

But now that a plea has been made, we will never hear the testimony and will never know the true extent of the details. This does leave me wanting for that aspect of “closure.”

I also strongly suspect that this is what led Stepfather to plead no contest – because as the trial date grew near, he feared having his wife and family hear the dirty details of his crime in court. Now those details will never be known, and Stepfather can forever hold on to the claim that he is innocent because he pleaded “no contest” and did not have to acknowledge responsibility for the crime before the court. It’s this “no contest” thing that has Susan hanging onto that thin thread of belief that her husband is innocent. Very clever on Stepfather’s part, I must say.

[Green_Cymbeline]

@Cat Fight

@Bridget Burke

I’m not a parent but I wouldn’t want any child I cared about near somebody who got drunk & fingered a nubile 14 year old.

Or around somebody who thought that was no big deal.

Wasn’t she 13? All of grade seven.

Just to clarify, she was 13 at the time of the crime. And let me say, I completely agree with you 100%, I wouldn’t want the kids around either person. Will a judge agree? Let’s hope.

[Green_Cymbeline]

@CrankyAsAnOldMan

Still, it’s not clear to me that the kids are in danger of sexual predation or molestation, as so many people seem to assume. I don’t know what kind of scumbag Stepfather is, but isn’t it possible to be the kind of scumbag who would hit on an unrelated teen but not make any move towards the (step)children with whom he has a strong familial and parental bond?

Of course, that’s a chance many parents would be uncomfortable taking–and as a Mom I entirely understand the desire to get those kids outta there. But the assumption that the kids will all going to end up groped (or worse) by StepDaddy feels flawed to me.

Honestly, I don’t believe Greg’s 3 boys are in direct danger of being molested or physically harmed by Stepfather. But I still don’t believe they should be living in a house with a convicted child molester, or a mother who defends that child molester. He is not a person that I would want the kids being exposed to, or acting as a father figure.

Just think, the kids would never be able to have their friends over. The oldest is 13 - just think, he’ll NEVER be able to have a girlfriend over. EVER. That’s sad, and unacceptable. I don’t want these kids going through their tween and teen years never being able to have their friends over.

[Auntbeast]

@CrankyAsAnOldMan

I don’t know what kind of scumbag Stepfather is, but isn’t it possible to be the kind of scumbag who would hit on an unrelated teen but not make any move towards the (step)children with whom he has a strong familial and parental bond?

I understand where you are coming from CAAOM, but consider this. How high, wide and deep is the barrier between you diddling a child? That is a big, huge, massive mental hurdle to climb over. The discrete difference between “one ya know, one ya don’t” is extraordinarily minor by comparison.

I can’t even fathom a grown up of any age not being able to pick out a 13/14 year old in less than 5 minutes of conversation. I’m assuming it takes more than 5 minutes for an average guy to get his hand down an average girls pants.

[MysteryFellow63427]

@nyctea scandiaca

Her ploys have worked. They are very loyal to their mother, and say they don’t want to be “taken away” by Greg. One boy even said in the interview he wishes Greg “would just leave them alone.” It is my strong suspicion that he has seen his mother get upset at Greg’s attempts for custody, and he in turn mimics her unhappiness and fear.

So yes, if Greg does get custody, they will be resistant and upset at first. However, knowing them, that probably won’t last long. They love visiting Greg and always have a great time with him. They will all be able to have their own rooms, and without their younger siblings around, they won’t have to spend as much time helping to take care of them - allowing them more time to be kids.

Get the kids out, and get them in a stable situation. The oldest is just hitting puberty and entering high school and the others are soon to follow–this is exactly the time in their lives that they need a good male role model.

After Greg gets the kids (hopefully), he should carve out huge amounts of time in his schedule to make them a part of his normal life.