Whenever we upload a large file the download speed/connection tanks. This seems to be a common problem, but most of the advice I’ve seen seems to be limited to a single computer or program. But uploading kills the Internet around the entire house—not just the uploading computer. Further, it doesn’t matter if the upload is happening on a Mac, PC, Linux or Android device, and it doesn’t matter whether the connection is through cable or DSL—any large uploads kicks the Internet in the shins.
Relevant/available hardware includes:
[ul][li]Linksys WRT310N[/li][li]Arris Docsis 3.0 cable modem (primary Internet connection)[/li][li]Netgear 7550 DSL modem (backup Internet and VOIP phone)[/li][li]PC running Windows 7[/li][li]Mac running OSX10.4[/li][li]Linux running Ubuntu 12.04[/li][li]Android devices 4.0+[/ul][/li]
The two broadband connections run through a pair of A/B switches to change between services to ensure an almost always on connection. The switches do not affect connection quality.
Ideally I’d like to change settings on the Linksys router (which most computers connect through regardless of the Internet connection) and the built-in router of the Netgear modem (it’s our backup connection, but when the rest of the house is on cable there is still the VOIP and a couple other connections).
I thought that this was an inherent weakness of residential internet. Meaning the problem is in the ISP’s pipes, not in your in-home setup. I shared internet access with a previous roommate. When she would upload large photo proofs, it meant I couldn’t do anything online all day. If you regularly need to upload large files, they want you to spring for a better (enterprise-level) internet connection.
Since you already have two internet connections, you could invest in a dual WAN router, set it up for load sharing rather than fail-over…might help. AFAIK all dual WAN routers are enterprise or small office targeted, so they might be better able to cope than consumer grade stuff which often seems iffy even in simple circumstances.
Your speed is getting killed because outgoing requests and acknowledgments are getting delayed or dropped which can cause connections to time out. In the bad-old days when SDMB would slow to a crawl, it seemed to me that Midwest dopers had far fewer issues…my WAG was it was the hops that were killing the more distant consumers.
You might investigate if there is some software that will bandwidth throttle the uploading computer to say75% of what your service supports. BitTorrent applications do this by necessity, and you can still browse OK while sharing torrents.
I think that’s it in a nutshell. I don’t care about the overall upload speed (clients are used to long uploads), but the uploading devices are swamping our network with unthrottled packets.
A per-device solution might be possible, that that means finding, installing and tweaking programs to run on the Macs, the PCs and all the non-rooted Android devices we have.
I’d ideally like the Router(s) to manage this–to (and here I’m making this up) drop packets from an uploading device before sending them on to the cable/DSL modem.
Or is it the router itself that’s causing the problem? That is, is the router the one that’s getting overwhelmed with incoming packets so it can’t do its job correctly? Would one computer directly connected to the cable modem have fewer issues uploading a file in the background while it downloads another?
That’s my guess, but it’s hard to tell. There’s a ton of difference in the performance characteristics (and oddly, lifetime) of home routers vs. “Business” ones. We used to have the opposite problem with a Linksys model very similar to yours: anyone streaming video would basically shut down the internet for everybody else, even though there was plenty of capacity available.
A possibly diagnostic test: turn on file sharing on a couple of those computers, and transfer a very large file from one computer to another (if they’re talking through a switch downstream from the router, replace it with one of those $10 switchless hubs, or connect them right to the router for this purpose. This takes the “internet” out of the equation. If it still happens, upgrade to a mid-range router. If it doesn’t, I’d upgrade anyway (home routers always seem to be the weakest link), but it depends on how much money you’re willing to throw at a potential non-solution.
This used to happen to me when I used to use an older Linksys 54G router…my son would start watching something on youtube and it would crawl the internet for everyone else in the house.
I have Comcast cable internet, and while there is a certain level of vehemence associated with them, one nice thing they did for me recently was send me a letter basically saying “Hey, with the connection speeds you’re paying for our records indicate that you are using an older model Westell modem…send us this envelope back approving us sending you an upgraded modem with a built in router for free!”.
So I did, and man does this thing kick ass. We now can have someone watching Netflix on the TV, someone downstairs watching youtube, someone downstairs playing an online videogame, someone upstairs using a tablet and someone else upstairs also watching youtube on the other PC all simultaneously and it’s seamless.
All my speeds during heavy usage like I described remain firmly in the 25-35 down and 5-8 up speed range.
Might want to look for a setting called QoS (stands for quality of service) you can set certain devices as having priority and not to allow other devices to cut bandwidth below certain points. Usually the base model routers do not have this feature.
The other fun one is bonding appliances, not a cheap toy, but extemely useful where uptime is critical.
Yeah, this model had it, but it was turned off. The router just couldn’t handle the number of packets correctly (when it got hot, I think). Anyway, long since replaced it with a better one.
The 310N has QoS settings, but I’m not sure how they’d apply.
I can choose to prioritize by either application or device (MAC address), but I don’t want to limit an entire device or application, just the upload aspects.
The primary downstream cable connection is great. We can stream music and a couple videos at the same time without a hiccup. Switching to DSL is noticeably slower, but it’s still a broadband connection.
But both crap out as soon as an upload starts. I don’t care that upload speeds are throttled, I just don’t want them crippling the download speeds.
As far as testing, we routinely move GBs between computers. The connection goes through the router, then through two different D-Link Gigabyte switches—to understand the suggestion, the test would be to add a NAS device directly to the router, then pull a giant file from it by one of a computer also directly attached to the router, and see if that messes up the hole-house Internet? (Asking the pedantic question because it’ll take quite a bit of moving to do this.)
Not necessarily. Just make sure that the storage and the computer don’t share any switch other than the router itself (basically, just make sure some switch doesn’t do its job and route traffic locally without involving the upstream network). And frankly, it’s not worth moving a lot of stuff around for unless “just replace the router and try it” is out of your price range.
You don’t say who the provider is. You might look into a better cable modem; the junk that Comcast, Cox et al. provides is often outdated and shoddy. Buying a solid Motorola 61xx-series might provide a better connection, and should save you $75-100 a year in modem rental. Your provider’s web page should have a list of compatible (and recommended) modems; choose wisely.
Come to think of it, I have an older NAS200 that I use for backups in the den—I forgot about it because its megabit connection means we don’t use it in our office. I can yank that fairly easy, and the test isn’t how fast things transfer between it/computer, but whether doing so bogs down something else on the network.
Provider is Comcast. I hate that they (and Frontier) rent me a modem for about/more than I’d pay to buy it myself. They’ve gotten me to stay with dire warnings of cutting me off from tech support. The only thing I really call them for is to diagnose outages and call for help, so it’s not like I need them for much. But I’d hate for them to pick up and tell me they can’t do anything because I don’t pay their rental fee.
That said, how does the modem figure into this? Is it possible that my router is passing on so many upload packets that its overloading the modem? If it passes TimeWinder’s storage test, would this be the next logical place to check? Amazon’s Prime return policy means I can do this test for just a little of my time and shipping cost, but if it’s a likely solution I’m all for it.
I’ve had my own modem for years with Comcast. They might give you shit about service problems because you’re not paying them $100 a year rental, but that small downside is worth having modern gear and paying a lot less.
Modems vary a lot, and the Arris stuff they provide is pretty low-end and prone to glitching and failures. A Motorola 6130 (I think that’s the current model; you’ll have to check with Comcast’s recommendations page) improved my speeds and has had zero problems.
If the hardware solutions don’t work, I’d look into software for all your devices that let you set a maximum upload speed. Chances are you are very nearly maxing out the upload bandwidth.
I’d also suggest calling your provider. I had a problem like this, and it turned out to be on their end, not mine. Granted, mine got a lot worse, to the point that I couldn’t actually upload at all, yet still having the same problems with downloading.
Residential plans are typically assymetric: 20/5 or 60/15, etc. What this means is that you can download at 20 Mbps and upload at 5 Mbps. The reason for this is that most people do not upload nearly as they download. That’s the first part.
The second part is that you need to be able to upload and download in order for any connection orientated protocol to work. Basically, as you recieve packets you have a session established with the sender indicating that you have recieved them and they are correct. This is where upload comes into play here. As you upload a huge file you are consuming almost all of that bandwidth preventing any other downloads to communicate with other senders. You probably have plenty of download bandwidth available but if any protocols can’t establish a connection they will time out and be killed.
That’s it in a nutshell. I was brief but you can look up this stuff on Wikipedia and they will give you a better answer.
Any ways, for a solution, Quality of Service (QoS) as others have mentioned. Depending on the router you can set them up on protocol. I.e., you give certain things like streaming video and voice calls a higher priority as it will be way more obvious if there is a connection issue. However, an upload might be seen as the same as normal web traffic if you are using a web based portal to do whatever it is you are doing. There are plenty of bandwidth control/shaper applications for all OS’s. That’d be my suggestion. Look on CNet.com or the likes and see which ones have high reviews and have a free trial and allow you to control it per application, port, protocol so you can throttle the uploads to no more than 30%. That will make it transparent to everyone else on the network.
