Do you have a citation to al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya making those claims? Or should we simply use your logic to indicate, by a quick survey of The National Review that all the U.S. press gave 110% support for the war?
Good interaction with al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya are among our best hopes of getting the U.S. perspective out to the region (since our decision to play “U.S.” TV for them is going to appear to be simply the replacement of Ba’ath propaganda for Bush propaganda).
Wolfowitz is doing everything he can to sabotage his own dreams.
(Interestingly, Bremer actually included access to al-Jazeera as one of his points indicating the success of the U.S. efforts, so why is Wolfie sabotaging that point?)
I was listening to the news quite a bit on the day the Hussein brothers were killed and all the cable stations (CNN, FOX, MSNBC) were reporting that a “14 yr old son of one of the brothers” was killed in the fight. I don’t know how you imagined that it was not reported.
Gotta slip this one in somewhere: Jon Stewart to Tony Snow on “The Daily Show”
Yes, of course, the occupying powers need to use the media available to them to reach their intended market instead of complaining about it. But it has to be done in a way that respects their intelligence or it’ll backfire. What’s the debate?
During the invasion Al Jazeera was one of the “non embedded” (read:free) media.
Their reports didn’t suit the US propaganda because they brought along with the other news also the reality of the bombs and bullets killing Iraqi women, children, babies,unborn babies men.
The English languaged website they set up was under heave attack from hackeers from the very first minute and got down after only a few days. They brought it up again and it got down again.
Their team was attacked twice by the US troops and one member of got killed.
Of course you don’t expect Al Jazeera to start broadcasting US propaganda, do you?
Or do you?
Overall, their reports are most of the time fairly balanced.
A lot (read: extremely much) more balanced then what I saw and see on CeeNothingNews and Fox-cripple-News.
But of course those US’ers who think invading a country is absolutely normal find it also absolutely normal that their cripled biased propaganda media shows only nice patriotic pictures and shamelessly attacks everyone who disagrees.
Oh … What do I say… Of course that is absolutely normal… Slandering France, Germany, Belgium… Attacking everyone and everything because what do you want: They don’t support criminals invading a sovereign nation. Forgot.
Well, Mr.Wolf o witz makes himself once again laugable with his incredible arrogance.
Why doesn’t he proposes that the CIA mob kills some Al Jazeera journalists and the whole redaction staff?
No one would be surprized; no one is surprized of the “undercover” CIA actions since decades. They have even the absolute lack of morality and the amazing arrogance to bring two ex CIA’ers on CNN chatting about what they plotted, how they organized the killing, why they “decided” to wait to “liminate” someone. And that was even before they threw overboard the UN and the international law.
You see CIA members proudly give testemony of what they did all the time. Maybe in the USA you don’t see it? We do.
And thus, since the USA has this amazing obsessed fanatical team running the show who managed to bring the reputation of that nation that much down that it can’t fall any deeper, an assassination of the whole Al Jazeera team hardly would be found surprising or shocking.
But it must be said that Mr. Wolf o witz is absolutely good at the job to win hearts and minds…
Of the US’ers.
Election feever running high or is it cold sweat of panic?
By the way: If you want to compare Al Jazeera with Fox-criplle-News, first study Arabic because you don’t know what you are talking about.
Salaam. A
A., surely you understand that most people don’t watch Fox at all! And those that do don’t necessarily believe everything they see on it. And it’s not their only source of news.
And believe me, there is no election fever. Not even an election lukewarm water bath. Waaaay too early.
And I heard right away about the hapless (if scaredly well-armed) Mustapha. Qusay had at least two chances to send the boy out safely and refused. If the kid would have gone at all, which I’m not so sure about.
I know that on this website board there are extremely few Fox-cripple-News and CeeNothing News fans.
I replied to the suggestion that AlJazeera was some kind of “Arabic Fox-cripple-News”.
And sorry, but there are testemonies of people who lived tehre and who described the almost ridiculous force used to storm that house. Without warning to the people living next or across or whatever.
By the way: I’m not at all convinced the people showed as hunt loot are who they are reported to be.
I’m not informed about any DNA analyses yet.
For that they need their mother to provide testing material.
Well, I didn’t hear something about the USA knocking at her door yet. Saying: Yes we know we have murdered them a bit, and your grandson also, by the way. And we have made them TV stars and CD rom heros. But you know, they were a bit shooting at us and we have every right to be in Iraq, you know…
And of course you surely want also to know if it is them?
Did you hear something about it that this already happened?
I’m going to ignore the rant that was interjected.
First let me note that I have been busy, late nights and all that, so I will not say that I have been able to track the presence or not of USG spokespersons on the Arab networks in any complete manner. However, my random sampling of news consumption – I tend to consume TV5, TV2, BBC, al-Jazeerah, al-Arabiyah on a standard basis – the last two being the biggest sat TV news channels – I would hazard the opinion that there is no sign of a concerted effort on the part of the Bush Admin to get their message out, other than via the standard news conferences and the like, which are usually I may add, carried live.
Mace’s last two lines are essentially my thesis.
Yes, al-Jazeerah and al-Arabiyah are harsh to the American POV – but it does reflect the dominant reflex in the region. That means Iraqi or not, your “policy audience” has highly similar filters. Deal with it.
I wish to thank MTGman for highlighting the report.
I had completely forgotten about that, but yes, indeed, going through trusted channels is precisely the way to influence real opinion. If I were the CPA-I comm. Officer I would be having drinks every night with the Arab journalists and chatting them up in their own idiom – I can do that, and bloody fucking well should have someone who can do that on the job – and giving a straight up off-the-record-but-on-point message.
I know Arab journalists, I know it can be done – it takes an investment in time and of course also real results to back it up, but it can be done.
Now Scylla has said that if the stations are as biased and anti-American as I described he has no problem with Wolfie calling them on it.
Very nice, but not very helpful. First, I don’t believe al-Jazeerah and al-Arabiyah are “biased” in a sense they misreport the news.
While both could be better in terms of reporting standards, neither is any worse than say a Fox TV news report. Indeed, given my limited exposure to Fox in NYC and DC in my time back in the States, I’d say they’re a bit a cut above - often not that far above, and sometimes a bit below, but not off the meter in any case. However, that is perhaps my prejudice.
In any case, the “bias” is one of tone and selection, not censorship nor any … how to put it, fundamental misrepresentation of facts. Again, in general, each has their problems and neither are BBC standards, for example, but relative to the general media in the region, which is generally pretty shitty, they’re shining stars, with all the flaws they have.
Now, the reality is that this region is fundamentally anti American Government. That’s the populace. Pro American people – in general there is a kind of schizophrenia wherein the average Mohammed proclaims his deep respect and love for the US as an idea etc, but the specific policies in this region, he hates with a passion. The two stations reflect this. As American news reflects American biases in the gross.
Now, the issue then, is Wolfies words. Let me give context. I have heard through the grapevine that USG has put pressure not to advert on al-Jazeerah, that multinationals have gotten the sense that the US doesn’t look kindly on al-J. I give credence to what I hear, if only from the perspective that the impression is correct, perhaps not all the conclusions……….
Now in the States CBS, ABC, etc. can, to an extent laugh at the momentary pressures and displeasures of an Administration. In the Middle East we face a narrower market, and one that is heavily politically influenced. I recently declined, despite my other instincts, to finance a regional media endeavor for this very reason.
When I read that Woflie – the USG – has been putting pressure on the owners of the Media outlets that is in whole different context than back in the States.
First, it speaks to “Business as Usual” which ostensibly the Iraq thing is supposed to be ending. Stomp on the Media outlet you don’t like rather than engage it.
Second, Wolfie’s comments, as I mentioned, struck me as not fair, nor particularly helpful, in the context of what I know of Media efforts on the part of the CPA-I or the USG. It strikes me that we see a lack of a will or perhaps an understanding of who and how to engage Arab (or even the non-Red Meat American) public opinion.
I am sure this Administration would love it if everyone lapped up the tripe they have been serving as a message, however tripe is notably unpopular here, and some beef is needed.
Let me illustrate.
About two months ago I attended an invite only CPA-I briefing at a $300 a head gathering. I stress this as $300 a head around here is not cheap. So, in a room filled with foreign and Arab business men, our CPA-I man (I stress I rather like him as a person) opened with some dumb-ass (and long) Rumsfeld quote comparing Iraq to American in 1781.
Now, I was sitting next to a close friend, a very pro American Arab who had told me before the war that he supported an American action in Iraq (he has affaires in this connexion), leaned over and said to me “what planet is this guy from?”
In short the rhetoric from Rummy’s Boys was totally tone deaf and rather far off mark.
I almost missed this. Now my dear commentator from Alabama has this to say:
No, we are not all being Gentleman or other hackneyed conceits, so if you have something to say in regards to whores, then fucking say it without idiotic archaisims.
Where does this overwrought pretension to a characterization derive from? Do you speak Arabic? Are you reporting from first hand knowledge?
Where are you getting your, how shall we say, habitually colorful if unenlightening commentary from?
Let me advance a hypothesis- it derives from third hand reports found in whatever media is available in that center of world media, Alabama. Let me further observe that having been a real life direct consumer of the stations in question, as well as Arabic media in general, that the “picture” you paint is a caricature.
It is indeed true that following the Arab Sat media one might well have expected Baghdad to have resisted, but then that was a surprise to all. Of course as has become evident, it appears the strategies where not what one might have guessed. Regardless, both stations showed the footage of US forces entering, as well as my dear as-Sahaf. I rather liked him, actually, real panache.
The handling of the international media has to be the clumsiest the USA could possibly do. The firing on the Al-Jazeera reporters and the Palestine hotel (where the international press was staying) during the taking of Baghdag was truly idiotic and onle served for the international press to become more critical of the USA.
Now, in the BBC page linked in the OP we see the USA occupation forces are hindering the reporters of Al-Jazeera in their reporting, taking their tapes from them and holding them in detention.
That’s what happens when the military are doing the PR: “Agree with me or I kill you”. It is amazing how myopic they are in the PR aspect.
Oh, that’s rich, considering that U.S. media carried the Bushies’ message that al Queda and Iraq were linked and that Iraq had WMD and could deliver them against the U.S. And, this message won the day in the rush to war, what with the cable news channels all but leading the charge.
Maybe it’s possible that Wolfie and the boys don’t want to appear too much on al Jazeera or al-Arabiya, because they’ll be confronted with tough questions for which they’ll have only BS answers. Iow, they won’t come off credible.
Sad to say, there is a part of me that wouldn’t be surprised if Wolfowitz & Co. attempted to justify sanctions against al-Jazeera and al-Arabiya by saying that they are “providing aid and comfort to the enemy.”
Every time I think this circus has hit bottom, I find that they’ve invented a new level.
Last night they had on their (new I believe) spokesman. I’ve forgotten his name, but he was brilliant, discussing plans for the Uday and Qasay bodies in excellent, respectful Arabic. Whitebread fellow.
I was quite impressed. I want to see more of that, and less gung ho talk. On the other hand a new tape from Sadaam in re his sons and vengeance.
“Where does this overwrought pretension to a characterization derive from? Do you speak Arabic? Are you reporting from first hand knowledge?”
You appear to believe that because you know Arabic this gives you some kind of special insight into the plausibility, or otherwise, of the bogus news that is normally broadcast by Islamic thugocracies.
This is about as ridiculous as your claim on another thread that the women of Arabia walk around totally covered in black sacks, in 120 degree heat, no less, because they have freely chosen to do so and refuse to have it any other way.
To back up this preposterous claim, all you had to offer is the: “I have lived there and therefore I know.” standard of proof.
There are an adequate number of English language translations of Arabic news broadcasts and articles on the web, so nobody here has any need to rely on your dubious claims of what has been said, or what was really meant, by Arabic language news sources.
I don’t appear to believe it, I know it my dear ill-informed purveyor of bigotry.
I live in the region, I work in the region and I consume the media here, I am well placed to characterize the two channels under discussion, whether in “thugocracies” or in ordinary little kingdoms or shady little republics or what not.
What on earth are you blithering on about?
Provide me with the actual words and the context, and perhaps there is a response.
If you have something to add other than hand waving references to “English translations on the net” then come up with it, else fuck off.
Have you had any feedback as to how the locals have perceived this chap? Sounds like he might be capable of making long overdue and sustained “good impression”.
