“During WWII, when North America was fighting against Germany and Japan, pre-war immigrants of those countries were either deported or more often sent to concentration camp. This has now been found to be an error, and the they have been financially compensated.”
Is this really true? I have ONLY ever heard that Japanese-Americans were interned. So- were US citizens of German ancestry interned as well? What is the ratio of the number of GA’s interned to the number of JA’s interned? I always assumed that since Germans are WHITE, they would not be subject to such treatment.
and Declan, in his last post said :
The internment camps were not a bad thing for America , if only 10 percent of the japanese population was pro tojo , they could have tied up divisions of troops needed else were , in the end we found out that they were “good japanese” and thus innocent, in another time , it may have worked out quite differently.
uuuhhh, first, is “Declan” cyber-cute for “THE KLAN”? Your fictitious figure of “only ten percent” being pro-Tojo (which is unfairly high if you ask me) leaves 90% of the JA population unjustly stripped of their possessions, their dignity, their FAITH in this nation, I could go on and on, but I dont think “THE KLAN” would get it…it seems that “THE KLAN” (my petname for you from now) does not consider these JAs a part of America per se.
“The Klan” said:
in the end we found out that they were “good japanese” and thus innocent, in another time , it may have worked out quite differently.
and so this is “not a bad thing for America”, huh? Nothing like “good Japanese”, huh, THE KLAN? They are such industrious little monkeys and are SO good at math! In quotes or not, that’s just offensive- had you the ability, you should have reached for a word like “loyal”.
The big difference is that 1940 america wasn’t the lone superpower. Americans were not sure if they would win the war. So they did what they felt was required to survive as a nation. It’s easy to second guess that now but i’m sure it seemed like the prudent thing to do then.
Today, we know that the terrorist are capable of some pretty nasty stuff but I doubt anyone believes that America is about to fall, or could ever fall because of terrorist attacks. I can’t imagine support for rounding up all the Muslims even if another, larger attack occurs. I think it would take a WWII sized threat before camps would be accepted. The interesting question is, if that level of threat did exist would we use camps again? I think we would.
Since you mentioned Canada in the thread title, I should point out that Canadians of Japanese descent were, to my knowledge, never compensated. This in spite of the fact that their property was taken and liquidated. I’ve been told that some of them lost their citizenship as well – even people who had been born in this country – but I haven’t been able to find a cite for this. It wouldn’t surprise me, though.
In spite of our reputation for being the more progressive of the two countries, there are some areas in which we lag behind the US. This is one of them
One major thing has changed in Canada since 1941 – The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. In 1982, we got protections for citizenship rights and basic human freedoms. Our “notwithstanding clause” allows the government to opt out of a few rights, but voting rights and certain other fundamental freedoms aren’t among them.
If the government wanted to institute such camps legally, it would have to nullify sections 9 (against arbitrary arrest) and section 15 (against discrimination on the basis of, among other things, ethnicity) with the “notwithstanding clause.” And using the “notwithstanding clause” is considered political suicide.
The government might be able to convince the courts that such legislation was necessary for security, but I doubt it. Some people whine about “activist” courts, but I like knowing that our court system errs on the side of freedom. It makes me feel a lot safer. I suspect the courts are going to have something to say about those “security certificates” issued after September 11.
Also, I don’t think the mood in this country would support it. “Security certificates” issued against suspected terrorists have been controversial, and the government was was roundly criticized for not doing enough for Maher Arar. Maybe I’m too optimistic, but I don’t think that would happen here today. If it did, I know I would be in the streets protesting.
Moderator’s Note:Takeo Jr, don’t play games with other posters’ user names. The rule in Great Debates is that you should attack the other person’s argument, not the other person.
And Declan, don’t do the same thing back when someone does it to you first.
I suspect it’s political suicide, currently, in a quite safe period.
Personnally I wouldn’t put much faith in the citizens of any country not supporting such actions in times of trouble, when they’re affraid for their life.
For instance, there has been a lot of arguments about the “freedom act” (is it the correct name?) on this board. Some people condamned the curtailing of freedoms it caused, some supported it given the circumstances. However, I’m pretty certain that nobody would have suported it had Bush tried to pass it out of the blues, in the absence of terrorist attacks. Similarily, how many american people, if told 5 years ago that people would be detained and interrogated for an undetermined lenght of time, for undisclosed reasons, without access to a lawyer, until they would be tried by a secret and ad-hoc military court, without access to the evidences against them, would have stated it could likely happen? And that it could be supported by a large part of the US population?
Of course, one could argue that it’s not comparable in scope with the internment of a whole part of the population. But the threat isn’t comparable, either. If the threat becomes more severe, then more and more people will support more and more drastic actions, with little regard for constitutionnal rights or charters. Especially other people’s rights.
No, I don’t have that much faith in mankind. Give affraid people a suposedly good reason to do so, and you’ll find plenty of volunteers to slaughter their neighbors, as demonstrated in many places during the last century. Convincing a majority that people they don’t care about (or even distrust) should be merely interned won’t be that difficult given a correct set of circumstances.
Ten years ago, the world sat and watched while genocide came back–in Rwanda this time–despite the promises of “never again.” So I’m not so convinced that bad things that happen back then will never happen again.
Also, following 9-11, male immigrants from predominantly Muslim countries were required to register with the INS.
Although there were protests to these actions, they certainly were not stopped. If we were subject to additional terrorist attacks, I don’t feel much doubt that more detentions would be likely.
This is subversive bullcrap. This kind of filthy lie is why whites are second class citizens.
Did it not occur to you that maybe, just maybe, “Germans” were NOT put in camps because most Americans at that time were of ethnic German decent?
Could it also be that another contributing factor was that the Japenese struck America FIRST in a cowardly suprise attack, whilst at the same time sending a peace envoy??
Just a bit of clarification: the name is the Patriot Act, and is was a bill put before Congress for voting, not in a national referendum. Not to say the public had no input at all, but that input could only be through persons making their opinions known to their congressional representatives. Of course the name had something to do with its quick passage as well. I predict many more bills with names such as the “Only Baby-Eating Freaks Would be Against This Act”.
“Them”? Who dat?
Don’t tell me, let me guess. Just arrived from StormFront, right? Feel free to demonstrate your bigotry if you must, but maybe you should try launching a separate thread. We’re not really talking about the particular subject you’re fixated on in this one.
It’s true, there’s always the possibility. Right after the September 11 attacks, a mosque was firebombed in Montreal and some children with Arabic-sounding names were assaulted.
The majority of this country, though, seems to be aware that terrorists are lunatics, and other people can’t be judged by the fact that their ancestors came from the same country as a particular terrorist, or that they and millions of other people happen to belong to the same very diverse religion.
We did have draconian legislation brought in after the terrorist attacks in New York – the so-called “security certificates” among them. But conventional wisdom suggests that our courts are going nix the “security certificate” legislation. Neither Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, not his successor Paul Martin, had the temerity to use the “notwithstanding clause” to make the certificates legal, even at a point where the public’s emotions were running high. Even though it’s generally thought, until recently, that their political party would be unbeatable in the next election, they were likely afraid of a backlash – Canadians are that protective of our rights.
My hope in the human race was buoyed by the responses to a recent hate crime in Montreal. A Jewish elementary school was firebombed, and the perpetrators left notes indicating that it was “retaliation” for the killing of Sheik Ahmend Yassin. It could have turned ugly for Arab-Canadians and Muslims in this country. But most people seem to understand that this crime was commited by an isolated lunatic or lunatics, not a community.
Thanks for the name. But I wasn’t implying that people voted for or against it, but only that they argued for or against it. And that I doubt we would have seen many people arguing for it in the abscence of a terrorist threat.
Contrary to what you might think, German and Italian aliens in the USA were interned during WWII. However, their numbers were small (compared to the Japanese-Americans )on the West Coast. Many of them were repatriated via South America.
The really weird thing-Italian prisoners of war were interned at Peddock’s Island (Boston Harbor), and during the war, many were given parole to work in Boston!
I guess the governemnt didn’t think they were much of a threat!
As far as another 9/11 type atrocity? I could see the governemnt rounding up and deporting illegal arab aliens…that should have been done long ago (one example is that blind egyptian imam-in NY?)that guy is constantly calling for the destruction of the USA-HE should be sent back to Egypt.
