US Citizen born in Germany - dual citizenship?

[SenorBeef]

My father was in the US army and stationed in Germany and I was born there. I was told by my parents that just being born there gave them the option of making me a dual citizen. Is that true?

I was talking to a friend about it recently, who investigated her own potential citizenship in another EU country based on heritage, who told me that she’d read that if I were ever offered the opportunity for dual citizenship, then that option would still be available. So she thinks I could somehow go apply for citizenship in Germany if I wanted.

Are either of those things true? Would I get some sort of automatic approval of citizenship based on where I was born?

Edit: I was born in the early 80s, before reunification. So the FRG doesn’t actually exist anymore. Not sure if that’s relevant.

[DataX]

We’re you born on German Soil or the US Army Base itself?

[SenorBeef]

I’ll try to contact my parents to ask soon. Also relevant may be that I only have a US certificate of birth abroad. I don’t know if I ever had any other sort of form, but I don’t have any sort of German birth certificate currently.

[DataX]

Actually it looks like you probably can’t:

German nationality law

I am no expert - and spent only a few minutes, but generally you can become a citizen of a country by either being born there - or having ancestors that were. Different countries have different methods - some do just one, some do both, but it looks like Germany is mostly based off who and not where.

[Tante_Dillie]

Germany has consulates in most large cities. Call the nearest one and ask.

[Donnerwetter]

@SenorBeef

My father was in the US army and stationed in Germany and I was born there. I was told by my parents that just being born there gave them the option of making me a dual citizen. Is that true?

I was talking to a friend about it recently, who investigated her own potential citizenship in another EU country based on heritage, who told me that she’d read that if I were ever offered the opportunity for dual citizenship, then that option would still be available. So she thinks I could somehow go apply for citizenship in Germany if I wanted.

Are either of those things true? Would I get some sort of automatic approval of citizenship based on where I was born?

Edit: I was born in the early 80s, before reunification. So the FRG doesn’t actually exist anymore. Not sure if that’s relevant.

The answer is a clear ‘no’. Before January 1st 2000, the fact that you were born in Germany had no relevance whatsoever for your German citizenship status.

[Monty]

@DataX

We’re you born on German Soil or the US Army Base itself?

Contrary to some folks’ opinion, US military bases overseas are not US soil.

[alphaboi867]

@SenorBeef

…Edit: I was born in the early 80s, before reunification. So the FRG doesn’t actually exist anymore. Not sure if that’s relevant.

Yes it does; it’s the GDR (ie East Germany) that ceased to exist and who’s territory was annexed by the Federal Republic of Germany.

[F.Pu-du-he-pa-as]

I’m not sure. The website of the US Diplomatic Mission to Germany only explicitly covers those born in Germany since February 2, 1990; I’m not sure if this means you wouldn’t have any claim to German citizenship, or whether there was some other law they don’t discuss here:

As of January 1, 2000, a child born in Germany to non-German parents automatically acquires German citizenship at birth by jus soli if: (1) at least one parent had lived legally in Germany for at least eight years prior to the birth; (2) at the time of the birth, that parent had a permanent residence permit (either an Aufenthaltsberechtigung or, for the three years prior to the birth, an unbefristete Aufenhaltserlaubnis). Note that:

The child must choose between German nationality and the nationality of his/her parents before he/she turns 23 years of age, unless it is legally impossible for him/her to give up his/her parents' nationality, in which case he/she must apply to the German authorities for dual nationality before turning 21.
Those born in Germany to non-German parents before February 2, 1990, have no claim to German citizenship under this law.
For more information, please contact your local Staatsangehörigkeitsbehörde or the nearest office of the Ausländerbeirat (Foreigners Advisory Council).

The German Federal Foreign Office website isn’t any more clear, and I don’t feel like tracking down the law and wading through the German.

You should probably contact the German consulate which has jurisdiction over your area, which would be the German Consulate General Los Angeles.

Aside from the question of whether you can get German citizenship, you should also consider the question of whether you really want to have German citizenship, since you would also share the same responsibilities of any German citizen, and I’m not sure what all that entails.

For instance, there’s the issue oftaxes (from the same US site above):

Depending on the laws in effect, level of income, source of income, etc., an American-German dual national may owe taxes in both countries. All dual nationals must report all worldwide income by filing an annual U.S. income tax return, regardless of whether they owe taxes to the U.S. or pay taxes elsewhere. For more information about taxes, please contact the Internal Revenue Service at:

Internal Revenue Service
U.S. Consulate General Frankfurt
Giessener Str. 30
60435 Frankfurt/Main
Tel: 49 69 7535-3834 or 3823
Fax: 49 69 7535-3803
Email: IRS.Frankfurt@irs.gov
or your local German tax office. 

There’s also military service:

An American-German dual national is not exempt from German military service simply because he is also has U.S. citizenship. However, service in the German military, at least under these limited circumstances, has no effect on his U.S. citizenship.

As far as military service goes, back when I lived in Germany, there was compulsory military service (or civil service) for young men, but that seems to have been discontinued. You’d probably want to check. E.g., one of my friends is a dual US/French citizen, and even though she wasn’t drafted, the French government did want her to undergo some small amount of military training.

There’s also the language issue. My bad German was fine for living there in two-month stints, but you would need to learn German well if you wanted to participate in the political life of the country to any meaningful degree.

Anyway, hope that helps!

[Enola_Gay]

My niece was born in Germany and has dual citizenship Germany/US. The difference between your case and hers is that her dad is a German national and her mom is American. She was born on a US military base, though I’m not sure that matters.

HOWEVER, she has dual citizenship NOW (she’s a minor) but at the age of 18, she will have to choose to be a citizen of the US or Germany. IOW the dual citizenship that she now has will terminate at the age of majority.

[Enola_Gay]

nm

[thelurkinghorror]

@Enola_Gay

HOWEVER, she has dual citizenship NOW (she’s a minor) but at the age of 18, she will have to choose to be a citizen of the US or Germany. IOW the dual citizenship that she now has will terminate at the age of majority.

Might want to check that. Some countries do not allow dual citizenship except in rare cases, like Japan (although I think that’s 20 to renounce). Germany’s system is very complex, but it looks to me like that might be true, but by 23 years old at worst, but AFAICT it looks like that’s non-EU//CH children. I see lots of stuff about zero citizen parents or both citizen parents, so it’s worth looking into if she can.

The US doesn’t really care about your other citizenship, as long as they get their cut. You renounce allegiance upon becoming citizen, but that’s not the same thing as renouncing citizenship.

[Eva_Luna]

@thelurkinghorror

Might want to check that. Some countries do not allow dual citizenship except in rare cases, like Japan (although I think that’s 20 to renounce). Germany’s system is very complex, but it looks to me like that might be true, but by 23 years old at worst, but AFAICT it looks like that’s non-EU//CH children. I see lots of stuff about zero citizen parents or both citizen parents, so it’s worth looking into if she can.

I’ve had German clients who ran into this issue and/or didn’t want to naturalize in the U.S. because of it. The explanation I got from the last German client who ran into this is that the only way to retain German citizenship on naturalizing in the U.S. is to apply for special permission first. Further details here. Permission is by no means granted automatically.

[F.Pu-du-he-pa-as]

I hope this isn’t too much of a hijack, but–

@thelurkinghorror

The US doesn’t really care about your other citizenship, as long as they get their cut.

At first I was skeptical, since at one point I knew a guy who was an Indian citizen who had spent most of his formative years in the US and wanted to become an American citizen, but couldn’t have dual citizenship (though the law later changed). Turns out that the problem was on the Indian side, not the US side.

The official US policy on dual citizens seems to be this:

The U.S. government allows dual citizenship. United States law recognizes U.S. Dual Citizenship, but the U.S. government does not encourage it is as a matter of policy due to the problems that may arise from it. It is important to understand that a foreign citizen does NOT lose his or her citizenship when becoming a U.S. citizen. An individual that becomes a U.S. citizen through naturalization may keep his or her original citizenship. However, as some countries do not recognize dual citizenship, it is important to consider it carefully before applying for U.S. citizenship.

Dual citizenship is a complex issue and it is important to understand that there are not only benefits but also obligations that comes with being a dual citizen. Being a citizen of two countries means that you need to obey the laws of both countries, which may include paying taxes and serving in the military. The "United States Dual Citizenship Guide"explains these issues in detail.

But then I thought, seriously, is the US really OK with dual citizenship with, say, Cuba or Iran? Looks like it is-- the situation is that the US will recognize people as US-Cuba/Iran dual citizens, but Cuba and Iran only see them as Cuban or Iranian citizens.

Cuba:

The Government of Cuba does not recognize the U.S. nationality of U.S. citizens who are Cuban-born or are the children of Cuban parents. These individuals will be treated solely as Cuban citizens and may be subject to a range of restrictions and obligations, including military service. The Cuban government may require U.S. citizens, whom the Government of Cuba considers to be Cuban, to enter and depart Cuba using a Cuban passport. Using a Cuban passport for this purpose does not jeopardize one’s U.S. citizenship; however, such persons must use their U.S. passports to enter and depart the United States. There have been cases of Cuban-American dual nationals being forced by the Cuban government to surrender their U.S. passports.

Iran:

U.S. passports are valid for travel to Iran. However, the Iranian government does not recognize dual nationality and will treat U.S.-Iranian dual nationals solely as Iranian citizens subject to Iranian laws. Thus, U.S. citizens who were born in Iran, who became naturalized citizens of Iran (e.g., through marriage to an Iranian citizen), and children of such persons—even those without Iranian passports who do not consider themselves Iranian—are considered Iranian nationals by Iranian authorities. Therefore, despite the fact that these individuals hold U.S. citizenship, under Iranian law, they must enter and exit Iran on an Iranian passport unless the Iranian government has recognized a formal renunciation or loss of Iranian citizenship. Dual nationals may be subject to harsher legal treatment than visitors with only U.S. citizenship.

So, ignorance fought.

[Monty]

@Enola_Gay

My niece was born in Germany and has dual citizenship Germany/US. The difference between your case and hers is that her dad is a German national and her mom is American. She was born on a US military base, though I’m not sure that matters.

Doesn’t matter. As noted above, US military bases outside of the US are not US soil.

[thelurkinghorror]

@F.Pu-du-he-pa-as

I hope this isn’t too much of a hijack, but–

At first I was skeptical, since at one point I knew a guy who was an Indian citizen who had spent most of his formative years in the US and wanted to become an American citizen, but couldn’t have dual citizenship (though the law later changed). Turns out that the problem was on the Indian side, not the US side.

Quick google, some of which I am aware of now - the countries I see with dual citizenship problems include Azerbaijan China, Czech Republic, Denmark, India, Indonesia, Japan, Kazakhstan, Nepal, the Netherlands, Norway. At least Czech is complex - I know someone who moved from there, it might be counted as “under communist duress,” but right now she doesn’t have Czech citizenship (has EU so might not matter much). Some have quasi-citizenship, like overseas citizenship for India, but it’s not the same thing.

As I understand it, if the US goes to war with your other citizenship, they want you to support them first, and that’s mostly just hypothetical. In the past, the US was stricter.

[sailor]

However, the Iranian government does not recognize dual nationality and will treat U.S.-Iranian dual nationals solely as Iranian citizens subject to Iranian laws.

This is pretty much universal. As I posted in another thread

http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?&p=16828562&postcount=12

I believe the general rule is that if you are a citizen of a country you cannot claim the protection offered by a foreign passport. So, if you have a US passport then you have to use that in the USA and the Government of the USA will not recognize any consular protections offered by other countries.

But if you have several passports and you go to a country from which you have no passport then you can choose which one to use.

Interestingly, in the same thread, post #19, Schnnitte mentions a narrow exception in which Iran might recognize dual USA-Iranian nationals as Americans.

[sailor]

Some countries like China will not allow dual citizenship and will take away Chinese nationality and passport if they find out. But they have to find out. If a person is careful they can still hold both.

[septimus]

My children are U.S. citizens born in Thailand and will have dual citizenship for life. The have to carry TWO passports (they do NOT want to get transit visit when they return to Thailand. :smack: )

The U.S. Consular official told me different when I got daughter’s first passport many years ago. “She’ll have to decide which nationality she wants when she turns 18.” What I assume now is that that official was conflating Thailand’s rules with those of another country where he’d served.

[Dr.Drake]

@septimus

My children are U.S. citizens born in Thailand and will have dual citizenship for life. The have to carry TWO passports (they do NOT want to get transit visit when they return to Thailand. :smack: )

The U.S. Consular official told me different when I got daughter’s first passport many years ago. “She’ll have to decide which nationality she wants when she turns 18.” What I assume now is that that official was conflating Thailand’s rules with those of another country where he’d served.

That’s a common folk belief. As cited upthread, there are cases where it is true, but it is widely believed and stated as fact by all sorts of people, including many like your official who ought to know better.