US Citizens and Knighthood

[Northern_Piper]

*Originally posted by APB *
**OK, Northern Piper, but I do warn you that it is very arcane.

The only time when the question of whether baronets were knights has made any sort of practical difference was during the late 1620s when Charles I imposed fines on those gentlemen who had failed to present themselves to be knighted at his coronation in 1625. Not unreasonably, some baronets argued that they should be exempted from the fine because, as baronets, they had been knights already. My recollection is that this was overruled on the grounds that possession of a baronetcy was not the equivalent of a knighthood. Whether this ruling still applies is, of course, one of those questions that no one in their right mind would ever bother thinking about. **

Ahh, the Stuarts! what fun they were!

I should have guessed - so many odd bits of constitutional law came about because they pushed things to the limit.

[Primaflora]

Just another bit of trivia - Commonwealth citizens can use the title evne though they are not UK citizens.

[Dave_Stewart]

Quite so. Sir Richard Hadlee is a New Zealand cricketer.

The only exception that I know of is Australia. Australians are no longer knighted - they now get the Order of Australia.

Does anyone know if the Queen still does the thing with the sword on the shoulders? I wouldn’t have thought she’d do it to every knight - every judge (but not magistrate) in England gets an automatic knighthood.

[APB]

*Originally posted by Dave Stewart *
**Does anyone know if the Queen still does the thing with the sword on the shoulders? **

Yes, although not in the case of honorary knights such as Giuliani. The number of knights created in any one year is not large, even including high court judges, and the dubbing only takes a couple of seconds, so any extra effort involved is not a major burden on Her Majesty. This is usually done at the large-scale investitures held several times each year at which she dishes out all sorts of medals and honours. The sale of videos of these ceremonies to the recipients has become a nice little earner for the Royal Household.

The phrase ‘Office of Profit or Trust’ presumably does have a precise definition. The only comment I can add is that it derives from the older English notion of ‘an office of profit under the Crown’ which pretty much meant any government position with a salary or entitlement to fees.

[Northern_Piper]

*Originally posted by Primaflora *
Just another bit of trivia - Commonwealth citizens can use the title evne though they are not UK citizens.

Originally posted by Dave Stewart
The only exception that I know of is Australia. Australians are no longer knighted - they now get the Order of Australia.

This isn’t quite right. Each Commonwealth country decides for itself if it wants to allow the Queen to give titles to its citizens.

For example, at Canada’s request, the Crown has not given titles to Canadian citizens since around 1920. There have been a few exceptions, but generally speaking Canadian citizens cannot receive titles. If they really want a title, they have to renounce their Canadian citizenship and acquire British citizenship.

We discussed the issue as a side-bar last spring in this thread, and also in this other thread.

Note that Canada’s position is that the Crown will not give titles to Canadian citizens. If a Canadian citizen happens to inherit a title, I believe it is still valid.

[Izzardesque]

I’m not sure but I think that holds for the States too (I did UK Constitutional Law for my law degree and I’m sure this was mentioned). Titles can be inherited but not given. However, IIRC it is only the title that can be assumed – any benefits that may go with the title cannot be had unless you give up your US citizenship yadda yadda yadda