US employers looking down on the unemployed and those taking assistance

[Broomstick]

@Crafter_Man

I have a buddy who owns a roofing company. He is always hiring, and I think starts his guys off at around $10/hour. He can’t find people willing to do the work.

Either that, or other businesses offer better working conditions or higher wages. Roofing is not something everyone is physically able to do, and anyone strong and healthy enough to do roofing will have more options than the less able. It may be that he needs to offer a higher starting wage to attract from the limited pool of labor able to do roofing work.

After all, just because you want to buy apples at $0.10 each doesn’t mean anyone is selling them at that price. If the lowest price is $0.20 each either you pay that or you don’t get apples.

Last year I needed some painting done on my house. So I asked a buddy of mine, who is on unemployment, if he wanted to do some work for me. (He was always complaining about not having enough money.) All of the sudden he started grumbling about his “knee problems” and “back problems.” I told him to forget it. He went back to playing video games all day.

Many people say they want a job. But when push comes to shove, they don’t really want a job. Much easier to stay at home on unemployment or welfare and play on the computer all day.

So… because you have a “buddy” who is lazy you are extrapolating that to ALL people who are currently unemployed?

Of course, nothing makes my day like getting a job from a client who then carps all day about the lazy-ass people on unemployment yar yar yar :rolleyes: … I’ll never show it, but boy do those people come off looking like jerks. Likewise, clients who’ll yammer on about how they would never hire anyone on any form of assistance and I just smile and nod and think to myself “Well, you just did - because you apparently don’t realize us poor folk look just like everyone else.”

[Dangerosa]

@Broomstick

So… because you have a “buddy” who is lazy you are extrapolating that to ALL people who are currently unemployed?

I suspect that there is truth to both sides. That there are indeed people willing to work where there are not jobs available. Often they are in depressed areas and stuck there. Or they have restrictions on the type of work they can do and the work available they can’t do (i.e. physical restrictions). There are also plenty of people - we’ve all met them - who are capable of working, who are in areas where jobs are available - although they might be frankly shit jobs - who are unwilling to work “that” job.

And its easy for someone who has never been unemployed to say they’d work “any” job - but honestly, I know people who have been laid off professionals - and unless you have the type of contacts to get you “any” job, a lot of jobs aren’t interesting in hiring someone overqualified off the street. You need an “in.”

[Broomstick]

Oh, certainly there are people on both ends of the “want to work/don’t want to work” spectrum. It’s just silly to point to one extreme or the other and say “all people are like THAT.” We can trade anecdotes all day, it proves nothing.

But yes, those who have never been unemployed do not really have a visceral grasp of the situation. Even if they ARE willing to flip burgers at McDonald’s they don’t understand that, given a choice between an inexperienced high school student and someone with a Ph.D. for that job the Ph.D. guy is actually considered less desirable as an employee. The problem is being overqualified. As you point out, unless you have an “in” with someone at the hiring company it is likely you won’t get a foot in the door. The more highly skilled/highly educated/highly experienced you are the more those low-level jobs are closed off to you, rightly or wrongly. This has even lead to people lying by omission on job applications, where they apply for an unskilled job and just don’t mention they have a college degree or two, because the “high school only” crowd is more likely to get hired than someone with a doctorate.

[msmith537]

@Crafter_Man

I have a buddy who owns a roofing company. He is always hiring, and I think starts his guys off at around $10/hour. He can’t find people willing to do the work.

I can get $10 an hour ($405 a week) from the State for doing nothing.

I’m actually pretty lazy though.

There’s an opportunity cost for me working a low-level job too. Every hour I spend looking for or working at a McJob is an hour I’m not spending looking for a professional job in line with my career goals. Doesn’t help my resume any. It’s probably better if someone worse off and more desperate takes that job. For them it could be the difference between having a roof over their head.

Better for me to rest my massive brain until such time the economy needs it again.

See, the system works.

[Lemur866]

@Crafter_Man

I have a buddy who owns a roofing company. He is always hiring, and I think starts his guys off at around $10/hour. He can’t find people willing to do the work.

Hey, if all your buddy wants to do is sit around and complain, more power to him. Otherwise, he can pay what it takes to get competent employees.

Thing is, all the motivated hardworking smart and experienced people already have jobs, and they’re making more than $10/hour. If you’re offering $10/hour, that means you’re not going to find great workers, or if you are, those guys are going to be with you for a very short time until they get job that pays better with better working conditions. So by offering $10/hour, you’re practically guaranteeing that you’re going to get some combination of lazy, stupid, bad attitude, problem with authority, substance abuse, careless, and irresponsible in varying proportions.

Working at Microsoft, there are contract employees and permanent employees. And I always used to wonder why some guys were contractors. Like, you’d sit next to a guy that was clearly really smart and technically proficient, and wonder why he couldn’t get a blue badge. Except after a couple months, usually you’d find out. The guy would start to miss work. Or he was a huge whiner. Or unable to understand normal human social interaction. Or sick all the time. Or they’d show up late every day. Or they just web surfed every day instead of doing their work. Or only seemed to be technically proficient, but really were just good at bullshit. Or they just didn’t have the english language skills. Or sometimes they really were that good, and pretty soon got hired permanently.

So when your buddy whines that he can’t find great people to start on the bottom rung for low wages at a physically demanding and dangerous job, well, there’s a reason for that. Either he comes to terms with the fact that people have alternatives to busting their ass on top of a roof, or he’s going to keep getting surprised by life.

It’s always funny that often same people who constantly tell workers that nobody ever said life was fair and you’ve got to toughen up and face facts and you aren’t guaranteed a job, are the ones who bitch and whine that they can’t find decent employees for their minimum wage crap jobs.

You ain’t gonna find decent employees for crap wages, you’re going to find crap employees. Just like nobody guaranteed a worker a decent job, nobody ever guaranteed a business a decent worker. You want a decent job, you’re going to have to earn one. You want decent workers, you’re going to have to earn them too. Whining about how workers are lazy assholes is equivalent to whining about how employers are greedy assholes.

Hey, you don’t like it, you can hit the bricks and close up your crappy business that can’t afford to pay decent workers what decent workers demand. Or, find a way to make it work with paying crappy workers the wages crappy workers demand, and then dealing with the crap that inevitably follows crappy workers. Either way, quit crying and whining and expecting decent workers to appear like magic whenever you snap your fingers.

[Kent_Clark]

@msmith537

I can get $10 an hour ($405 a week) from the State for doing nothing.

YMMV of course. In Missouri, the maximum benefit is $320 for 26 weeks or 33% of your base income for the previous year, whichever is less. In other words, you max out at $8,320.

Of course, I could sit on my ass for six months (making only the minimum effort to look for a job that the state requires) and call it a paid vacation. But after that, I’d have been out of work for more than the three months that some posters seem to think is the dividing line between unfortunately out of work and just plain lazy.

Which means, I’ve sold my entire future for half of the $8,320 maximum benefit. Given that I have a 35-year record of employment, just how lazy do you think I am?

As for all those who are saying there’s plenty of work in construction, here’s the latest report on new housing starts(released just today.) I won’t give it away, but let’s just say the word “below” appears a lot.

[Crafter_Man]

@Broomstick

Oh, certainly there are people on both ends of the “want to work/don’t want to work” spectrum. It’s just silly to point to one extreme or the other and say “all people are like THAT.” We can trade anecdotes all day, it proves nothing.

Each and every person I’ve known on unemployment has not actively looked for a job while on unemployment; *each and every one *has sat at home and played on the computer all day. About one month before their unemployment runs out they cry, “Oh, no, my unemployment is running out soon! What and I going to do?” and then they frantically look for a job.

Three of the people that were on unemployment became experts on “The System” and figured out a way to get on permanent disability. One of them gets $1800 for a “bad back.” He works under-the-table for my uncle installing transmissions. Another is an old classmate of mine. She runs a large goat farm in Tennessee, which is *very *labor intensive. You know the guy who gets $1800/month? His wife was a nurse, and late last year got on disability and is now receiving $1400/month. She has no mental or physical disability as far as I can see; she’s just fat and lazy. According to my uncle, she went to a bunch of psychiatrists and convinced them she was crazy. My cousin, who has always been an *extremely *lazy person, and incapable of holding a job due to her laziness and irresponsible lifestyle, is actively trying to get on disability by claiming she has all kinds of psychological problems. She has spent countless hours figuring out The System.

I know two who live in subsided housing, and five on food stamps. The one woman in subsided housing has a jewelry fetish, and seems to spend all her money on expensive jewelry and tattoos. I have an estranged uncle who lives in subsided housing. He watches movies and drinks all day. (I’m not even sure where he gets his money. I don’t want to know, to be honest.) Would you like to hear about the ones on food stamps, and the things they spend their money on?

I’m not saying *everyone *is scamming the system. But I think most are.

[CrankyAsAnOldMan]

@Crafter_Man

I would not hire someone who has lived on unemployment benefits for more than three months. I would assume someone who has received unemployment benefits for that long is lazy.

I don’t know what’s more troubling to me–the fact that you maintain such a faulty assumption, or your willingness to share that prejudice with all and any who read this board.

FWIW, unemployment benefits are supposed to keep the wolves from the door, so people can stay in their homes, feed their families, etc. It’s hardly providing a comfortable life and it’s not a generous replacement of prior income. I suppose that to you, it’s just further evidence that anyone who puts up with unemployment benefits for over 14 weeks must be a real sack of indolent crap indeed. Perhaps that’s the case for some, but it may also be the case that some people are still on unemployment due to legitimate difficulties in finding suitable work.

[Dangerosa]

@Crafter_Man

Each and every person I’ve known on unemployment has not actively looked for a job while on unemployment; *each and every one *has sat at home and played on the computer all day. About one month before their unemployment runs out they cry, “Oh, no, my unemployment is running out soon! What and I going to do?” and then they frantically look for a job.

You know shitty people who are poor planners.

Most of my friends who got laid off in the last recession did take a little time off to decompress. But then MOST of them got their asses in gear and started looking for work. No one I know waited until unemployment was going to run out. Most didn’t even wait for their severance or notice period to end before unemployment kicked in. All are employed now (I think…one of my friends in underemployed, and one isn’t actively looking having decided to homeschool her kids - if a job came to her, she might change her mind).

And some, of course, went into pure panic mode - the day they got pink slipped they went home and got their resume on Monster, updated their Linked In contacts, and stressed out.

There are exceptions - one of the women I worked with said “early retirement” - she watches her grandkids for her daughter now.

[msmith537]

@Crafter_Man

I would not hire someone who has lived on unemployment benefits for more than three months. I would assume someone who has received unemployment benefits for that long is lazy.

Well, there goes my career as a roofer.

I’ve heard the general rule of thumb is it takes about one month for every $10,000 of salary you earn. Although a lot of that depends on local economic conditions. But from what I’ve experienced with professional jobs, the entire interview process from first contact from employer to offer can take as long as 4 months. And that’s not even counting the company not getting back to your initial resume submission for a few months.

I would agree that waiting until unemployment runs out and then looking for a job is freakin stupid. It’s not I couldn’t fit in going to the gym, running 4 miles, taking a leaisurely breakfast, playing Grand Theft Auto for a few hours and drinks with my buddies in with a couple hours a day of calling up employers and sending resumes.

[Kent_Clark]

@Crafter_Man

Each and every person I’ve known on unemployment has not actively looked for a job while on unemployment; *each and every one *has sat at home and played on the computer all day.

Hi, my name is Kunilou. Nice to meet you.

[Voyager]

@Lemur866

It’s always funny that often same people who constantly tell workers that nobody ever said life was fair and you’ve got to toughen up and face facts and you aren’t guaranteed a job, are the ones who bitch and whine that they can’t find decent employees for their minimum wage crap jobs.

How true. They are very quick to tell workers what the market says, but they hate listening to the market when it is giving them a message they don’t want to hear. This isn’t limited to roofers. I’ve seen an interview with a CIO where he complained that it was hard to find people. The only people he wanted to hire were those trained by someone else on exactly the programs his company used. Hiring good people and training them was out of the question.

BTW, in a down market if you are always looking to hire it means you always have openings, which means, unless you are bucking the trend and growing, that you always have people leaving. It is just mathematics.

[Duke]

@Crafter_Man

I have a buddy who owns a roofing company. He is always hiring, and I think starts his guys off at around $10/hour. He can’t find people willing to do the work.

That just might possibly be because the median salary around here (in a similar area as I think you are in) for a roofer is $15/hour.

[purplehorseshoe]

@Crafter_Man

Each and every person I’ve known on unemployment has not actively looked for a job while on unemployment; *each and every one *has sat at home and played on the computer all day. About one month before their unemployment runs out they cry, “Oh, no, my unemployment is running out soon! What and I going to do?” and then they frantically look for a job…

Well, you don’t know me. You don’t know my husband. You don’t know dozens of my friends, acquaintances, former classmates, former co-workers…

The rest of your post is about some horrible individuals you know. Now everyone else is a horrible person too? Bah.

[Lemur866]

@Voyager

BTW, in a down market if you are always looking to hire it means you always have openings, which means, unless you are bucking the trend and growing, that you always have people leaving. It is just mathematics.

Exactly. “I can’t find any qualified employees” really means “Waaaah, I want to pay below-market wages for qualified employees, and it isn’t fair that I can’t”.

[Broomstick]

@Crafter_Man

Each and every person I’ve known on unemployment has not actively looked for a job while on unemployment; *each and every one *has sat at home and played on the computer all day.

And where did this happen? Because every state I have lived and worked in has required that you provide proof you are looking for work or your unemployment benefits will be cut off. Every. Single. One. So, really, absent your state of Ohio lacking such a requirement you are either mistaken or lying.

One of them gets $1800 for a “bad back.” He works under-the-table for my uncle installing transmissions.

If you think fraud is being committed then report his ass.

His wife was a nurse, and late last year got on disability and is now receiving $1400/month. She has no mental or physical disability as far as I can see; she’s just fat and lazy.

And you are qualified to determine disability because…?

We’ve had it out plenty of times around here that you can’t determine disability by just looking at someone.

According to my uncle, she went to a bunch of psychiatrists and convinced them she was crazy.

How do you know she isn’t?

I know two who live in subsided housing, and five on food stamps…

Blah, blah, blah… Lady has jewelry and tattoos - how do you know it’s “expensive” jewelry? I can go go to my local flea market and get very shiny stuff by the handful very cheap. Tattoos? Sure, expensive, but you know they last forever, given enough time even a poor person can accumulate a lot of them, and if you’re in the do-it-youself crowd for that sort of thing it can be lamentably cheap. You have an “estranged uncle” - someone you barely know, then? And you purport to know what he does all day? Maybe he’s legitimately disabled. Maybe he plays the ponies. You don’t know, you just assume and then hold it up as proof.

Food stamps? Please - been there, done that. You know, because I’m ambitious and work my ass off and have a large garden and a freezer full of home grown vegetables I have, when on food stamps, been able to afford the occasional family steak or slab of fish. In fact, when I’ve been on food stamps I don’t buy vegetables at all because I grow them in the backyard, what I needed them for were the dairy, fruit, grain, and yes, protein foods I can’t grow out back. You’re one of those nosy busy-bodies looking into someone else’s grocery cart and passing judgment on them.

Where do you find the time and energy for all that? Don’t you have a day job? I dunno… you seem to have all this spare time, maybe you’re working the “system”, too.

[Steve_MB]

@Crafter_Man

I’ve never *not *had a job. But if I ever did get laid off, I would do anything – sweep floors, stock shelves, construction, concrete, etc. – than go on unemployment. And then I would look for a professional job while working my temporary job.

“I know and you know you’re gonna be out the door as soon as you find the job you really want. So get your ass outta here so I can talk to somebody who’ll actually stay on this job…”

[purplehorseshoe]

Thank you, Steve, for injecting that temporary dose of reality.

[Evil_Captor]

@Crafter_Man

Each and every person I’ve known on unemployment has not actively looked for a job while on unemployment; *each and every one *has sat at home and played on the computer all day. About one month before their unemployment runs out they cry, “Oh, no, my unemployment is running out soon! What and I going to do?” and then they frantically look for a job.

I think you need a better class of friends.