I would not say that. The governing council is mainly a bunch of outsiders who have not lived in Iraq for a long time and who have no legitimacy. Many Iraqis see them as outsiders and as puppets of the US. Whatever they do is considered by many Iraqis to have no legitimacy whatsoever. The only thing that keeps them in place is US military backing. They would not last a second without it.
And the notion that the US only supports democracy is silly. Just look at the history of the Philippines, Cuba and many other places. The USA supports whatever government is most favorable to its interests, including bloody dictatorships, including Saddam Hussein.
**I would not say that. The governing council is mainly a bunch of outsiders who have not lived in Iraq for a long time and who have no legitimacy. Many Iraqis see them as outsiders and as puppets of the US. Whatever they do is considered by many Iraqis to have no legitimacy whatsoever. The only thing that keeps them in place is US military backing. They would not last a second without it.
**
That’s why Iraqis are going to get to vote on it before it’s implemented. And are you sure most are outsiders? I thought that only a few were outsiders.
And the notion that the US only supports democracy is silly. Just look at the history of the Philippines, Cuba and many other places. The USA supports whatever government is most favorable to its interests, including bloody dictatorships, including Saddam Hussein.
I didn’t say that. I said that when we go to war to overthrow a dictatorship we don’t go and replace it with another one. If we do a coup, that’s different. If we could have overthrown Hussein with just a simple CIA coup, we would have done that and been just peachy with a pro-US dictator.
When it can be done, we do prefer democracy. You’ll notice that most dictators we supported did not have much democratic opposition, and if they did, we used our influence to get them to step down, such as in the Phillipines.
Haven’t contributed anything to this thread in a while, but this column by Jonah Goldberg pretty much says what I said a couple weeks ago, only better…
His "newcomer" analogy is silly because the US has been part of the international arena at least since WWI. The US involvement with foreign affairs obviously is new only to him.
Twisting his "beat the Bully" analogy... what he missed is that the Bully is the US... bloody nose and all. Al Qaeda seems to think the Bully needed a lesson. Lesson was given. What does the Bully do ? Re-assert his "dominion" no matter what. Naturally the "small kid" (Al Qaeda) isn't sticking around to be beaten... so the "Bully" (USA) starts beating the other kids that played with Al Qaeda and even one that didn't play with Al Qaeda... but conveniently had been bullied sucessfully before. Some of the other big kids tell him he is beating the wrong kid... but the "Bully" calls them wussies.... etc... etc... he even pays off a couple of small kids to join him so it doesn't look like bullying but that the whole kindergarden is against the moustache kid.
How idiotic can this guy get ? So the US is on a revenge rampage and no one should tell them they are wrong ? duh. Hey... but Bullies don't need to justify themselves... or even try to.
Well, of course. The reason that we attacked Iraq was, “Why not?”
This is a “good reason” to sacrifice lives and treasure. Why not?
Why send our soldiers to die? Why not?
Why should entangle 30 out of 33 active duty combat units for an indefinite period? Why not?
why should we enage an enemy that’s not an imminent threat instead of focussing all of our resources on the ones who are imminent threats? Why not?
Why kill our soldiers, loot our treasury, and increase the ranks of those who’re likely candidates for recuitment by terrorist organizations? Why not? They deserve it.
Great argument ants
What’s the point in considering our national interests and such like that? Pshaw. National security and national interests are for liberals.
[/sarcasm]
Lesson was given?!? Are you out of your f*cking mind?! Those 3000 people deserved to die?!
Every muslim on this planet should pray to Allah that it was the United States that was attacked on 9/11 because any other nation would have inflicted such a vengeful rain of ruin upon muslims everywhere (including any in their own borders) it would make the US’ actions look charitable!
It is ironic that the USA does so much damage to its own image and then tries feebly to undo some of it by granting Fullbright scholarships and similar things which have a tiny impact. It would be much more effective to not alienate them in the first place.
READ WITH CARE... AL QAEDA THOUGHT THE USA/Bully (not 3k citizens of which there were 80 other countries too) needed a Lesson. I won't justify Al Qaeda... They well might think those people deserved or not.... but they were targeting the USA. The same way Iraq was targeted for a lesson according to your cherished article.
Oh we are ever so grateful for the balanced and reasonable response of the US... hmmph... the same way Al Qaeda didn't care about who was in the buildings... you seem to put all muslims in the same targetable for vengeance group.
Ya know, I realize I’m preaching to the unconvertible but…
Let’s see, Al Qaeda used civilian airliners to destroy two civilian office buildings. Two completely defenseless office buildings.
The US used its billion-dollar technology to attack military targets and minimize civilian casualties. And succeeded in doing so.
[ul][li]Al-Qaeda = murderous butchers imposing their hate-filled religious views via terrorism[/li]
The US military = responsible defenders of its (and other rational country’s) citizens[/ul]
Al QAEDA view: Any big civilian target valid.
US view in article: Any Muslim country target valid.
We can discuss that the US is the lesser evil… but both are not exactly very nice about chosing their targets are they ? Or accurate. If the US bombs a Al Qaeda secret hideout in the middle of Rio de Janeiro killing only 5 innocent brazilians is good (great?) military technique… but hardly justifiable is it ? So even thou there is merit in ATTEMPTING not to kill civilians… one musn’t forget that maybe those civilians SHOULDNT BE in the LINE OF FIRE so to say.
Hail Ants, of course, for you and me Al Qaeda is much worse than the USA but that is not what this thread is about. This thread is about the perception that Muslims have of the USA and the fact is that they see the USA as a country which does some pretty awful things. A country which had Iraq in a stranglehold with the sanctions for a decade and that cost the lives of something like 1.5 million children. You and I can discuss how much of that blame goes to the USa, how much to Saddam Hussein and how much to other countries, but the fact is that the Iraqis blame the USA.
Most Muslims perceive the USA as a bully who attacked Iraq for no valid reason and killed many innocent people in the process. You may disagree but that is the way they feel it.
They think the USA is motivated by greed and imperialism and the USA is doing much to reinforce that feeling and not enough to counter it.
This relies on your unstated premise that Iraq was an iminent danger to the US and its citizens and to those of other “rational countrys” whatever they are.
No matter how many times it is claimed that there was a clear and present danger to the US, it just wasn’t true.
And, as has been said by others, your second point is your slant on things, and clearly not that of many Muslims.