US Navy talking about submarines.

Here is new about firing missiles from a USN submarine by the US Naval Institute.
I thought the military policy was to never say anything about the silent service.

Link.

No. They definitely make routine announcements about submarines. For example, here is an article about the commissioning of the USS Colorado (SSN 788). It contains some high-level details about the submarines’ design, armament, and capabilities, as well as the crew complement and the commanding officer.

The Navy certainly takes steps to make sure that, when on patrol, the precise locations of their submarines are kept secret, but that’s a far cry from “never say anything”.

ETA: they even gave tours of the submarine to the public:

Based on the events of the past week, I can only come to the conclusion that the modern U.S. military thinks OPSEC is for squares.

Yet I recall a similar cruise missile attack where a reporter asked if subs had launched, and the government spokesperson replied, “we don’t talk about submarines (activities?).”

My guess is that it was intentionally told about as a warning to other countries.

Perhaps they were a more explicit about the platform launching the missiles this time because they wanted to tout the first combat use of a Virginia. I think you’d be well-served by reading this article: http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/05/26/the-location-of-americas-nuclear-submarines-isnt-really-a-secret/. It does a good job of explaining how we’re not actually as secretive about our submarines as the popular perception might indicate.

Thanks, HurricaneDitka.

You’re welcome. :slight_smile:

Jeffrey Lewis is usually a fun read. I really liked this quote towards the end of the article:

Even DDG-81 should agree that ‘Jaw, jaw is better than War, War.’

Nice that the 2.7 billion a copy Virginias work as advertised. And I agree, that’s why they were even mentioned. “Look at our new toy! Isn’t it great!”

Strange that the heaviest hitter, the Ohio SSGN, USS Georgia, that was supposed to be lurking somewhere nearby (but now I see that it’s actually back home just now at Kings Bay, didn’t participate. It alone can fire as many cruise missiles as the entire strike managed. I’m sure another one’s en route. Or maybe the Navy feels the Truman group is enough?

From what I recall most of the crew don’t know where they are most of the time. Only the officers and a few others who need to know are aware of the sub’s location. The know what ocean they are in at first since they set out from their home port.

Business Insider published an article, with many details, photos and videos, of a tour they took of the USS John Warner.

This is more or less true for ballistic missile submarines on strategic deterrent patrols. However, in general, this is not the case for fast attack submarines. For most missions, any sailor who’s interested can easily find out where the sub is just by wandering into the control room.

Nevertheless, where a sub is at any one point isn’t particularly relevant to the average sailor’s life, any more than the exact location of a jet plane in flight is relevant to the average passenger. (What sailors and airplane passengers care about far more is how much longer the trip/deployment is going to last.)

Your typical sailor is busy working, sleeping, working out, watching movies, etc. After a few months of this, you stop caring where you are in the ocean. It all looks pretty much the same inside a submarine.

Russia and others were led to believe the two surface ships in the Mediterranean would be launching missiles. Russia threatened to sink one of them if it did launch. The reality is it was a sub in the Mediterranean, along with surface ships in the North Arabian Gulf and Red Sea that launched, catching everyone off-guard.

True, but one would hope very little ocean is visible from inside a submarine.

In the 80’s I was stationed on a fast attack submarine. We were told to not blab about many details, but they were explicit that we were not to talk about:
Future ship’s movement - where we’ll be and when.
Operations - what we did or will do.
Presence of nuclear weapons onboard - We were allow to say that we were capable of carrying nukes, but we were not supposed to talk about them or say whether or not they were actually carried onboard.

A guppy conversion WWII USN sub the Razorback is in the Arkansas River in North Little Rock. She was sold to Turkey and when too old for them, to the city. There is a replica nuclear torpedo in the rear torpedo room. Apparently they would shadow a ship or fleet during the Cold War, and if the balloon went up, fire and run like hell.

From the Lewis link:

Because words are meaningles without force to back them up. The notion that diplomacy can always be achieved through reasonable people talking it out is a fantasy. It denies the reality that countries have serious differences in goals, philosophies, and claims on resources, and that all countries act in their own best interest.

There are two ways to deal with that reality - you can offer carrots that are worth more than what you want the other country to give up, or you wave a big stick and promise to inflict harm that will outweigh the gain they get from ignoring you or doing what hurts you.

Both types of negotiation are important, as are combinations. Free trade negotiations are an example of a win-win situation that can be negotiated with suitable treaties with no threat of force required. Dealing with hostile regimes who are making claims on the land or lives of you or your allies is an example of the latter, or at least a combination of both.

Attempting to deal with a bad actor by offering carrots alone will soon find you with no more carrots and a bad actor with more resources to act badly with. See Obama’s disastrous Iran deal for an example. Or as Shakespeare said, once you pay the Danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane.

North Korea is a perfect example of that - a country that periodically does something crazy and dangerous, then quiets down when diplomats agree to pay them to stop. This time, their bluster was met by even greater bluster, and their crazy was met with another type of crazy, and now they are in peace talks with South Korea.

On the other hand, if you are primarily dealing with the world by waving your big stick around constantly, don’t expect to win a lot of hearts and minds. So as usual, selectivity and nuance are essential.

This a thousand times over; contractors too.

Case in point - Desert Storm II - We kill the #2 guy in Al-Qaeda (sp varies) for about the fifth time (being #2 was always a bad career decision). US spokesman, “Blah, blah, blah, #2 was killed today near <someplace>. US F-16 bombers using laser guided bombs assisted by special forces on the ground killed mrbaddude. He was located with the assistance of local residents. Computers and cell phones were recovered along with other documents and are being evaluated by intelligence forces.”

Well, what’s wrong with that, you say. First - we killed the dude. He has meetings scheduled, couriers come to visit, he manages other folks. Shut up and monitor arrivals. Sure, they will bug out after seeing the hole in the ground but you’ll get a look at them. What was Al-Qaeda response to the briefing? They immediately confirmed his death so no one would show up; they could move to a new location, they could toss their existing phones.

Second - we revealed the systems and methods used. Never do this. Say he was hit in the head by an accidental parachute airdrop. We revealed we had special forces in the area; they were using laser targeting, and locals were helping out (tough to be them in the future).

Third - we revealed we recovered phones/computers/documents. No No NO. Much of the realtime value is lost. We could get contact information and locations if they get on the exploitation right away. Shit, that was out the window.

Want to go - Hooray for us? Great, wait until the intelligence starts to grow stale then crow all you want.

Contractor stuff. I’m (prior to retirement) peripherally working on a black project undergoing testing - almost ready for low-rate production. Mrbigshorts Inc., comes on CNN to announce that, “Our latest test of <formerly secret> bigbulgingeye system was completely successful. All test objectives <insert list of secret capabilities> were accomplished. More PR blather about how this will enhance and extend, synergy, etc… on and on.” ON CNN. Then they took and answered questions!!!

I wept.

We were a couple years late getting Osama bin Whatwashisname because some idiot bragged that we were listening to his cell phone.
Most of these things, it’s best if just we and the Russians know about them.