In essence, you are, right now.
Bullshit. I have read enough of your posts to know are a much more capable writer and thinker than that. If you don’t like the fact I chose to try and explain a different side to a situation, great! At least you read and thought about the data.
To post such a poor response, though… come on.
Your posts are like air. I can’t see any substance to them. And that isn’t an insult (at least not in the way that it seems). You’ve got a lot to say and obviously you’re passionate about the things that you feel but I can’t see a point that you’re making at all.
Can you, not in a wall of text, but in one sentence, describe what your point is? That isn’t a sarcastic attack. In one, concise sentence, please tell me what your point of view on this issue is.
I second this. I know you’re feeling piled on and misunderstood here, Grave, so clarify for us.
Why? Maybe she wasn’t thinking about it until then. She’s a senior–maybe her time was spent studying and applying to colleges and only now could she turn her attention to something she felt passionate about. It’s besides the point. Its’ like saying that Rosa Parks picked kind of a bad day to make her stand because the white people were in a really big hurry that day and they were tired and really didn’t want to deal with protests. Tough.
And hey, maybe she did want a huge stink made. Is that so wrong? I get that it sucks having your school be the site of protest and people all over the country thinking less of you. But this change needed to happen. Those people in the town with the separate black/white proms that Morgan Freeman brought attention to probably hated being in the spotlight for a while. But again. Too bad.
Okay, so she asked for a letter. Big deal. This is so upsetting that the prom had to be cancelled?
Incidentally, this is what you said:
She didn’t want to change policy–she just wanted a letter. So you’re saying that he can’t change policy, he can’t even send her a letter. But he can just turn a blind eye to kids showing up? Seems kind of cowardly to me.
As someone who is a part time coach for a high school program, I’m going to have to say that his actions- if this is the correct case- are not only cowardly, but a downright shitty lesson to teach the kids. Break the rules until you get called on it, guys! Every decision I make for my team is not only the best I can make as far as outcome, but I also take into consideration what that action will teach the kids.
Can I make an attempt? It takes more than one sentence though:
If Constance’s goal was to change the school board policy about same sex couples and dress codes at the prom, she went about it in a poor way that had little chance of success (asking the principal for a written statement). If her goal was simply to get one-time written permission for her and her date to attend the prom and wear a tuxedo, leaving the school board policy unchanged for following students, then she isn’t the hero that she’s being made out to be.
I think that’s what Grave is trying to say.
Sorry, I can’t follow your twisted and prolonged periods. I do not think you are a bigot, but IMO, your posts come across as deploring the act of one person attempting to get equal rights under the law. This is odd, no matter how you look at it.
So what if she didn’t ask at the beginning of the year? What kid plans to go to senior prom on the first day of class? If you can look askance at my take on things, why not look askance at your own interpretation? Consider this: perhaps Constance didn’t think that she would be able to take down an entire school policy (or don’t you remember how helpless you felt in HS, caught up in the machine that was weighted heavily in favor of the adults?), so she asked for just a letter–to prevent public humiliation at the door of the event.
I don’t know if that was her thought process or not. To me, it’s irrelevant. It’s also irrelevant if she went into this with the sole intent of smearing the entire county or if she did this because she’s a borderline personality and needs to be a drama queen.
What matters is that an antique and despicable rule has been shown the light of day. And yes, an attitude that should have changed several decades ago is now held up for all to see and deplore. Certainly, those who are dismayed at the town’s treatment of gays should be irked at being tarred with the same brush as the ignorant, hateful folk who wish Constance would just shut up and go away. Or maybe they could also stand up and be counted. Afterall, if we all remain polite and quiet, no change will occur.
And you still don’t see the irony of you on the one hand proclaiming that those who don’t know this town and region should not call names (in fact you accuse us of bigotry), but it is YOU–you who live there, who are saying that this incident only makes things worse and that it has set “things” back and that people will resist change. That is a very poor reflection on the people in that county. I’m not sure I’d want you as a defender. You seem to be implying much worse things about this town and its people than any of the so called bigots here.
This is how you sound: Don’t you all dare call us bigots, you who know “nothing” of the south! That’s just mean, but boy, that girl stirred up a rat’s nest and now there’s hell to pay–this community won’t take that sitting down. But they’re not bigots or anything. Just mad as hell at having to permit something that is legal and that she’s in full in her rights to demand.
So what if the principal used to just let it go? This is a precise parallel to “don’t ask, don’t tell” which is such a burden for gays to live under (and not good for us all). The HS rule needed to be changed. Constance and the ACLU did not wait for a time when it was more “seemly”. Why should they?
I see no one idolizing Constance, but I do see you demonizing her-or at least her actions. All that talk of character and her timing, it’s a smoke screen. Itawamba county has egg on its face. And instead of rooting out the true cause, they’d (or you’d–in this thread at least) prefer to shoot the messenger.
I am sincerely glad to hear that my comment on gay male teens is not true. It is also true that one does not need to be south of the Mason-Dixon line to be thrown out of the house for being gay. It’s a sad statement on our society as a whole, but this whole incident is a sad statement on that as well. This could well have happened in any rural town (and depending on the city, there as well).
But here’s the thing: it DID happen in this MS county. Because it did, all experience, stereotypes, memories and perceptions of that region are in play. Given that on the surface (and you haven’t convinced me of any alternative depths) it does reinforce certain regional stereotypes, I have to wonder at your insistence on this being all about Constance and not at all about the school board, town etc. They all seem to be playing out well defined roles. If what you elude to is true–shall we see more gay bashing now in this small town? And if so, wouldn’t that just reinforce those same stereotypes again?
I don’t envy you your position, Graves. I see you as having to defend something you find repugnant, but will do so because it is outsiders doing the criticizing. That’s a normal human response to a perceived attack. But what you forget is that most of us here want very much for this issue to be resolved, but not by sweeping it under the carpet of gentility and politeness. 
I was wrong to expect the posters at the SDMB to want to rationally explore all the sides of a complex issue currently in the news.
This is what I expected. Again, you’ve done little but confirm my suspicions that you’re trying to find a convoluted way to support the community.
Wrong. That’s the dictionary definition, sure, but dictionaries are good at giving you the broad definitions, but pretty much suck at outlining nuance and context. For example, if I said that there was a group of people in this country whom I intensely dislike, to the extent that I think they should be rounded up and locked away somewhere, does that make me a bigot? If I’m talking about blacks, or Jews, or gays, yes. If I’m talking about murderers, then not so much. Nuance and context. Is it bigotry to hate someone for being gay? Yes. Is it bigotry to hate someone for insulting you, for slandering you, and for actively working to make sure you have fewer rights and freedoms in our society? No, it is not.
I don’t think it’s possible to argue that someone is displaying bigotry (as you have in the immediately preceding paragraph, in describing the attitudes shown towards Iwatamba county in this thread) and not also make a case for right and wrong. And you have been defending the school: from your first post here, you’ve argued that canceling the prom had nothing to do with anti-gay prejudice, and was merely an attempt to prevent further disruptions in the class room. You may be entirely correct in your reading of the school’s motivations, but none the less, that is a defense of the school.
I don’t think that’s an entirely fair characterization of your position, but you do seem to be employing a few double standards in this thread, and all of them seem to cut against the gay student. For example, your expectation that Candace should have started fighting the policy from the moment she learned about it is unrealistic in the extreme, and runs counter to the degree of latitude you extend to the rest of the students in this school. You are, in effect, giving an age-related pass to the straight 18 year olds, but criticizing the one gay student for things she failed to do when she was fourteen. Hell, did she even know she was gay when she started high school? Similarly, you seem to be making a great deal out of the idea that she could have fought this in a more effective way, which may be true, but you go on from there to extrapolate that this must mean that her motives must be tainted, instead of realizing that, as a teenager, she might simply not realize that getting a note from the principle allowing her to wear a tux to the prom is not the same as repealing the policy that prevents her from doing so.
I don’t mean this as an attack, or to suggest that you’ve been dishonest when you say that you oppose anti-gay bigotry. But you’ve advanced some arguments in this thread that indicate you have some troubling dichotomies in how you relate to people based on their sexuality.
I think we are trying to do just that. But so far all it seems that Constance is “guilty” of is of not submitting her letter in a timely fashion or something. When we try to point out that this should be about more than that, that it’s a civil rights thing, just the same as if a school had a written policy saying that black and white students couldn’t go as each other’s prom dates, Grave, you say that you agree that gay people should have their civil rights, but it’s just not the same as black and white people. And you also went out of your way to point out that it’s complicated and that it’s not the same as race.
But you haven’t shown us how it’s complicated. Why?
**
eleanorigby** just gave a well thought exploration into what you’ve presented thus far. I’d be interested in your response.
I just found out I get to go there and speak (informally) tonight. No, I don’t live there - over an hour away. Most likely, I’ll be even more hated than usual at the end of the night. You are correct in assuming this may lead to a rise in anti-gay activities. I assume the same - actually I fear the same. Repugnant doesn’t begin to describe how I find many of the things I’ll hear tonight, but someone has to provide a counterpoint.
I was gonna ask about that–I’d heard a rumor but hadn’t had the time to dig up an actual link on it yet. Can’t say I’m surprised to see it.
It’s a gang symbol.
Making sure his students have all the rights to which they are entitled *is *his fucking job. In the immortal words of my grandmother, I say again, tough shit.
Wrong. There are some things it’s okay to be hostile about; bigotry is one of them. Being prejudiced against bigots isn’t bigotry; it’s common fucking sense.
Yeah, all them Nazi-hatin’ Jews need to quit with their fucking bigotry.
Speak about what? Counterpoint to what? Are you saying you are going to speak in favor of gay rights? I cannot imagine what you will say. In fact, I have to say that after 7+ pages, I’m not at all sure if you approve of this rule being challenged or not! And for all your defense of these good people, it is you (again) who continually show no faith that they can change or accept differences. This is getting surreal to me.
I just can’t wrap my head around this simple “fact”: these are “good people” in this county, yet they support a system of prejudice and ostracizing in their formal behavioral codes. You find the code despicable, but deplore the actions taken to abolish it. 
Miller said it best–these dichotomies make my head spin.
Are you a politician? I feel as confused here as when I listen to one! 
Fag-haters deserve *just *as much tolerance and respect as you and I do!
If they were close to Jesus they’d turn the other cheek when we slam them for being gay.
But they aren’t close to Jesus. Because Jesus hates fags.
I’m curious, too, about what Grave will say. And honestly I’m not sure I get where you are coming from. You seem really impassioned. But impassioned about the fact that she didn’t make her complaint in a timely fashion–that doesn’t seem like something to get so riled up about.
If she didn’t, then…so what? She may have inconvenienced the other students. But I just don’t see that as important. I’m sorry, but to me a party–even a party on the level of the prom–is not ultimately as important as what she did.
I didn’t grow up in an environment like hers, no. It was conservative but not to this degree. But I do know what it’s like to be in a high school where if you go against the grain you get mocked or treated like an outcast. Not fun. No matter what Constance did, she’s done something that many adults couldn’t do. I honestly don’t know if I’d have the gumption to do what she did even a few years older than her. I believe what she did is right and that she was able at age eighteen to do something in an environment where the majority of people were not supporting her makes me feel a sort of kinship with her.