Projecting too much there, it **was ** Playstation war gaming thinking that gave us the Iraq war. Same way of thinking gave us the Patriot Act.
Since that whole 'put the “christ” back in Christmas fiasco, it has now become 'the war against xtianity."
Checking to see if this is the Pit. OK, it is.
I was replying to that tired ass, lame ass, weak “get outta my country” bullshit. In short, this was an A and B conversation. Feel free to C your way out of it.
You like the patriot Act? Fine and dandy. Personally, I think it was unnecessary, poorly written, and overall a piece of shit. It was rushed through Congress with inadequate time for any decent sort of review. Further, I still consider it unconstitutional. Really. Who the fuck cares what books I check out of the liberry? Who gives a damn if I go to “horny hamsters on crack” websites? Why should random roving wiretaps of citizens be allowed, where there is no probable cause or warrant? Tell me it didn’t happen. Give me cites that this increased activity makes us safer and is a worthwhile trade off. I can cite a very nice report saying we are not safer. Far from it. Etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Apparently, Congress is having second thoughts, including Specter (who used to support it). When the Act’s sponsors are worried that says something. DUH. Maybe Congress should get the hell out of the country. Maybe based on past rulings about privacy vs technology, the Supreme Court needs to get th hell out too.
Besides, we were having a good old time until the Buzzkills showed up.
Oh libertarians. They’re the ones who are obsessed with individual rights, privacy, property, limited government, all that unAmerican Commie shit. :eek:
Yep, that’s us!
We are the next “oppressed minority group.”
What the hell are you smoking? They were the Commies fer chrissake! Godless Commies! Remember them? “Religion is the opiate of da people” Commies! God hating, religion hating, freedom hating, America hating Commies? The “we will bury you” Commies! The “guys who outlawed religion and seized churches” Commies! When did they become christians? Why didn’t I get the goddam memo?!?!?!?!?
I take it then we can count on your whining rants to quit until the supreme court rules on something, right?
No more pit OPs from lil’ duffer, right? Not until there’s a SCOTUS ruling. Right?
That’s what you’re saying, isn’t it, pinhead?
-Joe
Not one provision of the PATRIOT Act would have stopped the WTC/Pentagon attack and there is no evidence that the act has been used to stop one attempted attack since that time (while Ashcroft did use its “penumbral” abilities to launch attacks against “pornographers” and in the War Against People Who Use Drugs).
The reason that the WTC/Pentagon attack was successful was that the intelligence and law enforcement communities tend to be jealous little fiefdoms (even inside their overall departments) that refuse to share information or ideas. The PATRIOT Act has some lip service to the notion of getting them to play nice and share (as does the bill to enact the oddly named “Homeland Security” department), but there is no evidence, to date, that the agencies are actually cooperating better–and this administration created the Office of Special Planning for the express purpose of filtering out convergent messges from multiple groups if they did not meet the preconceived notions of the war planners, so there is no reason to believe that the current administration would actually take steps to implement the (tiny) provisions that are there.
The PATRIOT Act has done nothing to make us safer, so your scenario is silly.
Yes, that’s exactly what I’m saying. Dick.
How about this? How about we all keep up the whining in the Pit about stuff that hasn’t actually happened yet? How about we just keep on bitching about stuff that may or may not happen just so we can have the honor of our name being the OP if it does happen? And if it doesn’t happen? No worries. There’ll be something else to whine about tomorrow.
That was in response to Merijeek.
As far as the Patriot Act? I just can’t get worked up over it. Call me insular or uncaring or whatever name you can think of. I just can’t work up the rage to rant about it. I’m so damn ambivelent I don’t even have the desire to try to rant about it. My daily life isn’t much different now than it was before it went into effect. I’d apologize, but I care so little about it that even saying I’m trying to sympathize is disingenuous.
There is way too much going on in the world to be able to spend the time and energy getting worked up over everything. It doesn’t affect me, it won’t affect me, and if it did affect me I’d be the kind of person they’re looking for in the first place. I understand why you’re upset about it. That doesn’t mean I have to be as upset as you.
Are you serious? If the heightened security measures of the Patriot Act have actually prevented an attack, do you think that you would have received a packet of notarized depositions in the mail detailing all the evidence? Just because the administration hasn’t decided to publish its methods and successes on the front page of the New York Times doesn’t mean that they haven’t been effective.
Apparently you are privy to the inner workings of the national security apparatus as well. Perhaps you can pass along some cool secrets.
The fact that an attack hasn’t happened in over four years is, in a bizarre way, part of the problem. The more successful attack prevention is, the more complacent some folks become. That’s why I made my remark about idealism without consequence.
Careful Duffer. Enemy of the State is real, you know. Even now, thugs are lacing up their jackboots to sneak into your house and plant audio and video devices to record which hand you amuse yourself with.
(The jackboots are a little bulky when sneaking around, but you have to sacrifice comfort for style.)
Nah. You’d just blab them around.
Given the opposition to the PATRIOT Act from people of all political camps (see the current Republican Senate vote), had there actually been an instance when the PA achieved some good, the administration would have been all over the publication of that fact. This administration has blabbed several secrets in order to make political points, so the fact that they could not even tell one of their Republican supporters in the Senate enough information to at least make the claim says volumes about how little the PA has done.
Why, effectively…yes. Yes, I do think I would receive notice, although not in the form you suggest. Rather, I’d expect the much easier to meet standard of a White House press release, skimpy on the details. It seems to me that, at this point, the Bush administration should be trumpeting any minor success they have.
I know you’ve got a really tiny brain, but you should at least try to remember what you’ve said lately. Specifically, this:
So I assume you’ll not complain until it’s prudent to do so - which, apparently, involves a SCOTUS ruling.
At least try to be consistent in your crap.
-Joe
Fact Sheet: Plots, Casings, and Infiltrations Referenced in President Bush’s Remarks on the War on Terror (October 2005)
Some of the ten successes are kinda dodgy.
Was it Cheney or Rumsfeld who said we would be greeted as liberators? Who told us the war was going to be short an inexpensive? Who keep telling us the insurgency is in it’s “last throes”?
It would be nice if our government actually had a plan for “Victory in Iraq” because so far, it seems to be a combination of Chanting" Stay the Course", “Cowards cut and run”" and then chastising anyone who finding this rather unsubstansive as “defeatists” or “wanting the terrorists to win”.
It would have been nice if they had plans for all possible contingencies when they invaded in the first place. You know, like planning for the possibility for an insurgency, which anybody with a high school education could reasonably deduce as a distinct possibly.
Or, since we were looking for weapons of Mass Destruction, actually secure all of those ammo dumps we captured on the way to baghdad, instead of just putting a few locks on the doors and then taking off, letting anyone with a bolt cutter take off with the contents withen?
And since this war is so fucking important to the future of Western Civilization, how about not cutting taxes yet again to we can actually afford to pay for it?
The Soviets? Christians? I thought they were Godless Commies? Isn’t that why it was so damn important that we put God in the pledge of alliegience and on our money in the 1950’s?
Oh, and BTW, Duffer, I haven’t always had such contempt for Bush. I voted for him 5 years ago, but the actions of the right(people such as yourself) and the adminstration have turned my support to comtempt. Your ilk is doing nothing to reverse that trend, since you can’t offer a defense, but rather perfer to insinuate that anything bad that happens is the fault of the domestic oppostion, rather then the guys who have been completely running the government for 5 fucking years.
Of course, if there is another attack, it’s because the liberals and democrats are emboldening terrorists.
Heads, I win. Tails, you lose.
We also disrupted at least three al Qaida attempts on the U.S. between 1993 and 2002 prior to the passage of the PA and there is no reason to believe that the ten “disruptions” were the result of actions taken explicitly due to the PA, (particularly since no one in the administrtion could point to any specific action when begging their same-party-controlled Senate to vote to continue the PA).
I agree, EvilOne. The fact that something hasn’t happened, is a problem. It is used as “proof” of something else.
It’s a false connection and is easy to show how, with an example…
I wear a Micky Mouse hat. The old felt one from the Fifties. Ears and everything. I’ve never been eaten by a shark. IT MUST BE THE HAT!!!
You can’t take the failure of an event to happen, and then use that as proof of something that could well be totally unrelated.
We all know the Administration likes to spin whatever they get their hands on. EVERY administration does it. We also know they like tho take credit for everything good… Again, EVERY administration does it. So why on Og’s green earth, aren’t the great successes being trumpeted to the heavens? Probably because there are none?
I’m talking real and verifiable terror victories here, not some pimply porn collector or dope peddling strip club operator (which by the way, were NOT the purpose of the Patriot Act, and instead illustrate that it is being abused and improperly applied).