You preceded the quote with a link saying “Kerry is a moron”, which seems clearly designed to make Dopers think - wrongly - that it was in fact Kerry you were quoting. Isn’t that the sort of thing December was banned for? :dubious:
It runs deep. Of course, it is ridiculous that the US maintains so many troops in Europe. It takes time. and some day (hopefully) there will not be all these American bases here in Britain (and elswhere), if only for reasons of common-sense. Other imperialist adventures will dictate this reason!
In saying this, I am not some sort of socialist-anti-imperialist. Reality beckons!
It is a pity that imperialism ran away from Rwanda. Right now, every day, horror runs all over Africa.
Quibble ? Your own (unattributed) quote completely contradicts your statement that “Something like a third of them think we staged 9/11.”
It’s not “something like a third”, it’s something like a fifth. And what they think is not that the US staged 9/11, but that the current administration could have staged the attack (“die Anschläge selbst im Auftrag gegeben haben könnte”) , which is of course another question altogether. (And a badly worded one, at that.)
Get a grip. Wacko Wesley is on the Kerry team. It is no more a false attribution than the dozens of ‘OMG BUSH DID TIHS!!!’ threads when actually referring to Ashcroft or something. Pathetic.
Oh, come on, Brutus.
First you quote a newspaper report of comments attributed to Wesley Clarke, presenting it to us as a report of comments attibuted to John Kerry. Then, in the same thread, you tell us about a survey of German opinion, materially misrepresenting both the proportion of the population said to hold a certain opinion, and the substance of the opinion itself.
Face it, you’re having a bad day, accuracy-wise. Carelessness. Happens to all of us.
But, rather than admitting a slip-up or two, you’re defending your mistakes. You apparently think it’s reasonably to present Clarke’s statements as though they were Kerry’s. You deny that this is “misquoting”. When people point out the truth about the German opinion survey, they’re “quibbling”.
Stop digging. You’re giving the impression of a man who is indifferent to accuracy or truth, and impervious to reason; who, having once adopted a position, is unable to modify it in any way, however untenable it may turn out to be. Keep on with this, and it will tend to undermine the effect of all your arguments. People will doubt the value of your opinions.
So much more disarming to say, “Yeah, you got me. I slipped up.” Don’t you think?
I did no such thing. Hey, ignore the meat of the matter, I guess. It is easier than defending Kerry’s position.
Add to Wacko Wesley’s statements those of Mssr. Richard Holbrooke, frontrunner to be Kerrys Secretary of State:
So either Kerry has surrounded himself with advisors that are voicing policy statements that Kerry doesn’t agree with, or they are mouthpeices for the campaign. Since neither have been told to STFU and no contradictory statements have been issued, it is fair to assume that these are the positions that Kerry holds.
Or maybe from the radical Right-wing New York Times
Nope. Nothing contradictory.
My first thought when I heard this, “Good, let’s give the money to southern European countries that showed support, and at the same time position our military better.”
Why we would spend so much money in Germany is beyond me. It’s not really strategic. I don’t see the US having a concern with the UK, Denmark or Norway stirring up shit in northern Europe. Hence, no point in the location.
The German government and many citizens (note I didn’t use a blanket statement) are either really against us, or they’re posturing to be seen as “The Country that really is better, stronger and more influential than the US.” Maybe it’s lingering guilt, maybe it’s an attitude a child gets when you take away his allowance, maybe they have some fundie belief that they know best. Whatever it is, they were right along with us on voting to sanction Hussein for violating the truce.
Of course, France agrees with Germany, which makes the stance a losing proposition anyway. (Isn’t that the 4th sign of the Apocolypse?)
So why not pull the troops and redistribute them? Send them to Italy, Bulgaria, Romania, etc. They could use the money, and we’d be much better positioned to potential trouble spots. Plus, I see no problem training those troops as they are unlikely to become a threat to the US.
Now to NK. My thought was “Great, let China handle it.”
Here’s why. Let’s say the US pulls all the troops and Kim Jong mentally-Il decides to take the peninsula (sp?). A squirrel can figure out the stance the US has with NK. China knows he’s a pshyco. And China’s economy is far too dependant on the US to side with such a megalomaniac. In addition, it seems to me that China taking care of him once and for all would garner them HUGE benefits in diplomatic relations, aid, and God only knows what else.
I have a feeling this has turned into a hijack, so I’ll stop here 
In Brutus’s vocabulary, does that make us “smarmy” or “weaselly”?
Perhaps being hostile to his country is the only way to gain a sliver of respect from Brutus (who for unknown reasons named himself after a guy famous for stabbing a loyal ally in the back, leading, in time, to his own downfall).
His line of argument comes across as by turns arrogant and patronizing, leaving a bitter aftertaste of xenophobia.
Hrmm. You did use ‘words’, and kudos for that, but now you should focus on using ‘words’ in a manner that convey a coherent thought. I cannot fathom what the hell you are going on about. It’s ‘xenophobic’ to think that America gets along with Sweden and Austria? 
I may be half in the bag, but I’m far from being shitfaced. I just can’t figure out what you’re saying here. Can you clarify?
I swear I’m not following you, just happen to be checking this thread at the same time you are.
Well back to the issue…
From what I first read air bases and air power will not be reduced much… is that correct ? These airbases have always been important and if Bush does close them would be mucking things up… otherwise infantry and tanksaren’t that useful in europe.
The troops from Germany to be removed are the 1st Infantry and the 1st Armored Divisions (correct me if the Divisions are wrong) to be replaced with batallions. There will still be land forces, but in much smaller numbers. And you’re right, the troops and tanks aren’t of much use in that area in the current numbers. Hence the reason to reduce them. From what I know, the Air Force will still be there in huge numbers as planes move faster than tanks and Humvees.
Now stop hating America so I can feel safe to live my dream of visiting Brazil.
Italy doesn’t particularily need the money. She’s roughly as wealthy as the UK.
Sorry but how many German civilians are hurt by this move is not the problem of the United States. Our troops were stationed there first as an occupation force and then to defend against the Soviets. Neither mission exists now so the troops should no longer be in place.
As for the 30,000 troops in South Korea, what exactly are they supposed to accomplish against the 1 million plus troops of North Korea?
I didn’t mean the countries are in dire straits, but I doubt they’d turn their noses up at a few million a year and free training.
While we’re at it, what about the troops stationed in Saudi Arabia? Correct me if I’m wrong, but our presence their was at the behest of the house of Saud during Desert Storm I, as a bulwark against a perceived threat from Saddam Hussein.
With SH in gaol, I would suggest that the first troop movements be to leave the Holy Land: Our presence there is a lightning rod for religious extremists, and the threat that predicated their presence is gone.
Why are we still there?
:dubious: We’re not. At least not in any significant numbers. We moved everyone to Qatar.
The final word is not in yet , on the air power side of that coin , but Ramstein is being retained for a military hub , as well as some hospitals.
Regarding squadron or wing level deployments , its assumed that the airforce is going to be following the armys lead in establishing mix and match, wing size units , probably the air battle unit or some such.
If I was to guess , the strikers are going to be more in Italy , and some of the eastern european countrys , while the trash haulers are going to be operating out of germany and england.
Declan
Geez Louise. Why didn’t anybody tell me?