They say to use their ATF only, of course they also say to only use their coolant. I discounted using their coolant years ago, when a local dealer auth service tried to sell me a different brand. I have never had a problen with my 1988 with 122,000 miles using other brand coolant. However, I do relize that this may not always be the case. My 2000 Honda w/Auto trans is scheduled to be replaced every 2 years or 24k mi. Last time I used the Honda ATF which costs $6 a quart. The book says that if needed I could temporarilly uss Dextron II, but that I should then change it back to Honda ATF ASAP.
What do u say? Better safe then sorry always works, but to pay this price just to support this company kinda burns me. I do want the auto to last.
PS: I am not using their recommended engine oil vescosity. 5w-30 is just to d— thin.
In reverse order about the engine oil. I just love people who know more about the engine in their car than the guy that designed, built and tested it for the car maker. Using too thick an oil in a modern engine can bring on poblems, but it is your car have a good time.
As far as trans fluid goes, if the manual says Dexron II is OK then you are probably safe. Beware however that there are some transmissions out on the market now that are not compatable with Dexron and serious damage will occur if Dexron is used in them. I would ask the mechanics at the dealership if they use Dexron in the shop or the Honda stuff.
They say the same thing about using their brake fluid and power steering fluid.Cars follow a standard so if in your case you can “temporarily” use Dextron II…you can use it all the time.It’s just that they want you to buy their product. As for oil viscocity…that’s a different issue. As a car gets older it is suggested by many professionals to use a thicker oil to fill the gap between the worn pistons and cylinders thereby preventing the loss of compression which translates to more horsepower ,better gas mileage and lubrication. Generally a new car should use what the manufacturer recommends. As it gets older you can raise it.Keep in mind the outside temperature as well. A heavier oil takes longer to flow freely in areas with extremely cold temperatures.
Takes longer with moderate temperatures, too, which is why some cars have had problems with premature engine wear when 10W30 is used instead of 5W30, which is why the factory engineers recommend the 5W30, even to the point of Ford issuing a technical service that retroactively specified 5W30 for most of their engines. Some newer Hondas call for 0W20.
[prissy]Look, folks, Rick and I are professionals in the automotive field with decades of experience and learning, and our advice is to use the oil recommended by the factory engineers. There are lots of folks – including, sadly, some who also earn their living in the automotive field – who don’t really know what they’re talking about, but are still happy to pass along advice. It’s often bad advice. Follow it at your peril.[/prissy]
Honda transmission fluid is a highly friction modified fluid and Dexron II is not equivalent. When they say you can use it temporarily if needed, they mean what they say, and they don’t mean to simply substitute it for Honda fluid and forget about it. The transmission will function, but it’s likely it won’t shift as well and/or last as long as it would with the right fluid.
I know nothing about Honda ATF… I have used Type F and Mobile tractor fluid in GM transmissions with great results but I am also using blue plate and Alto red plates. Maybe you can find a generic equivalent - read the labels. There may be a more economical oil, $6/qt is synthetic price range! Ouch!
I have also never known anybody to solve oil problems by using 20w-50, or thicker than recommended type oil.
Back onto the oil. It seem like at one time oil recomedation was for operating temps, not it seems like the oil is now more for the cold start conditions. Someone most likely figured out that most wear is during startup and a thiner oil will help out a lot.
and 5w30 and 10W30 should act the same at high temps anyway.
well, I think people notice engines that start fast and run smooth when cold more then they notice engines that last 100,000 or 150,000 miles. Especially those that buy new cars, and well a thinner oil will help here. I used to use 20w-50, now I use 10w-40. Looking at hot 10w-40 pouring out of an engine looks like oil, however looking at 5w-30 pouring out of an engine looks like water.
PS the '88 has 122, 000 miles and starts in 30°F morning in under 1.5 seconds, compression is great, the engine is out living the rest of the car. Probably because I change oil & filter every 3k or 3m and never operate the engine of under 20 minutes at a time. We (I) am getting off topic here. I guess $6 x 3 every 2 years is not a large expense, still kinda burns me though.
I know my second paragraph contradicts my first, what can I say? Maybe I grew up on 20w-50 and…well I also grew up on 3k or 3m and now 2000 honda and my 2003 Toyota both list short trip severe operating condition as 7.5k-6m and 5k-4m respectivly. I think this is sales related. … My new Toyota calls for oil change severe as 5k-4m. Really, well my Honda only requires that every 7.5k-6m. So Toyota owners thinks to himself “maybe I should have bought a Honda, maybe next time I will”
I think everyone here has glossed over the reasons engineers choose and suggest different oils for their products. I know none of this will be new to the professionals in the thread and they are welcome to add/modify what is to follow.
Specific ATF is chosen for it’s compatibility to the seals, gaskets and clutches. With over a hundred important parts in an automatic transmission, it is not wise to use an ATF that is going to dissolve one of them (primarily a gasket or seal). An ATF’s antifoaming ability is important as well.
Engine oil viscosity is chosen similiarly but centers on the extremes of cold at start-up and the heat of daily driving. The multigrade oils like 10W40 and 5W30… or whatever were formulated to provide lubrication over a greater temperature range. The second number addresses the lubricity of the oil at operating temperatures and is matched to the bearing material and oil system design of the engine. The first number is just as important since it addresses how the oil acts at cold temps and using the wrong grade can do major damage to your engine. For example, cold start-up with higher than called for viscosity oil can ruin your oil pump or break whatever system is driving the oil pump; rod drives and gear drives.
Brake fluid used incorrectly can also do damage and it is usually noticed more quickly. The brake fluid is matched to the type of seals in the master cylinder and wheel cylinders. Using the wrong fluid can swell the seals or draw them up, either way they won’t fix themselves. This is the same reason they don’t sell Super Glue in styrofoam containers.
Powersteering Fluid is chosen primarily for it’s antifoaming ability but the seal material are looked at as well.
Coolant selection gives you a little more say-so in what you buy just like PSF but pay strict attention to the ratio of water to coolant suggested by the manufacturer. You cannot run pure coolant/antifreeze in your engine.
Bottomline is that there is no good reason to ignore what the manufacturer suggests as far as fluids and replacement items on your vehicle.
Except that they also do it just to generate revenue. My Toyota says to use their special spark plugs, their specially manu air filters. They say that their oil and filters only r to be used…,etc
Not all the time. The trick is knowing when it makes a significant difference, and when it’s just marketing.
As one example, Honda uses a different type of power steering fluid from most other cars. Use conventional power steering fluid in a Honda, and you can count on leakage from deteriorated seals. You’ll notice that auto parts stores have two types of power steering fluid: conventional, and Honda compatible.
To a lesser degree, there are various antifreeze formulations. Even among the ethylene glycol (conventional) types, variations in the additives affect how well they resist corrosion in a given engine. In practice, it’s usually not a huge difference, and many shops routinely use “universal” ethylene glycol antifreeze with little or no obvious harm. Still, detailed analysis of the cooling system can sometimes identify problems when a non-recommended antifreeze is used.
Spark plugs? Some cars seem to fare well with any major brand, others can have problems with substitutions. There’s a Nissan engine that often develops performance problems and sets “computer” trouble codes unless the EXACT brand and number spark plug is used.
Unfortunately, many car manufacturers say to use only their brand of whatever (rather than an appropriate type of whatever), when in the real world we’ve learned that it’s often not a problem to use other brands. This sort of “crying wolf” makes it difficult for most consumers to distinguish truly important specific recommendations from holier-than-thou self-promotion. One way to deal with it is to seek disinterested knowledgeable opinions, such as posting a question on the SDMB.
I would either use Honda ATF or use Lube-Gard Highly Friction Modified Transmission Additive (black bottle) along with Dexron II. Will probably cost about the same either way.
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It’s too soon for knowledge of that particular year to have developed in the repair aftermarket (my segment), but I don’t know any cases where quality aftermarket parts or fluids are unsuitable for Toyotas.
