Sure…police routinely beat people in this country for no reason but that they disagree with them. Especially peacable bi-standing citizens doing nothing at all, just minding their own business and strolling about town. Its a well established fact. I’m sure your friend (if this is even a factual story…I’m thinking no) was doing nothing but minding his own business and just walking peacefully down the street…it happens every day. Its hardly safe to leave your house these days because of those roving bands of police…
However, as this doesn’t happen EVERY day, the beating of a citizen or citizens (you said he was with a group of ‘friends’) by police during an anti-war rally would have made the news SOMEWHERE, so…cite please.
From Aldebaran, reposted from Tim Robbins
So, your beef is that some private citizens took umbrage with what Tim was saying and took it out on the children verbally…and also shunned Time and Susan from going to some school functions? And from this, you translate this into “USA unfreedom of Speech”??
While I deplore what these PRIVATE CITIZENS might have SAID to those children as plain stupid, whats that got to do with the government?? If it was bad enough, I’m sure ole Tim of the golden heart would have simply sued them…or taken out charges if the ‘attack’ was physical.
Are you saying that the government has to regulate…what? That citizens can’t/shouldn’t be mean to each other? I don’t even know how to say what you are getting at here…maybe you can? Are you saying that citizens of other countries aren’t ever mean to each other? That they shouldn’t be? That their governments regulate somehow being mean? lol, strawman is fun…
It dates from a week or so before the invasion of Iraq started. I don’t think I have saved anything about it. Maybe if I search for a while I can give you one or more articles dedicated to it. But I don’t have them in English.
He and the others weren’t doing anything else then walking with thousands of others. And I think those who organize such demonstration ask permission and were granted permission, as it is the normal procedure in every normal nation, or city.
And I don’t know if he sued but I can tell you that he was shocked and mad as hell. And the more since his name was mentioned in at least one non US article about the incident.
As for finding any of this “normal”, I’d have to say, “of course it’s normal.” People act like thugs all the time, over-reacting to the actions of others. Being a nation of laws, the U.S. should discourage such behaviour, but contemplating eliminating it so that all people react like robots, programmed with inflexible rules of political correctness… that’s abnormal.
People act like idiots. Deal with it. Claiming this proves the U.S. is a corrupt nation is just dumb.
In Belgium you are as free as a bird to say what you want about anything or anyone.
Yet there is a difference between that, and making abuse of this right.
You are for example not as free as a bird to discriminate others because they say what they want, and that isn’t what you like to hear.
And teachers are not as free as a bird to preach hate and radios are not as free as a bird to call the public to murder people with whom they don’t agree. They risk to loose their job rather quickly if they would do that.
You also are not as free as a bird to glorify Hitler in the sense that you claim the Holocaust never happened and the Nazis were harmless sheep. That would bring you in a lot of trouble, not in the least since there is such a prominent and old Jewish community in Belgium, especially in Flanders and especially in Antwerp, the capital of Flanders.
You are also not as free as a bird to discriminate other people. Not by word, not by action, not by publication.
You would get very quickly sued for violation of the anti discrimination laws.
I don’t live in Belgium. Yet I do spend a lot of time there and I have a lot of relatives from my mother’s side overthere.
What I think about the situation in the USA: People have an other interpretation of “freedom of speech”. My impression is that people in the USA have no respect at all for others. And by this I mean: Not in the least.
They cover the most cruel discrimination and insults up with their cry “freedom of speech”.
I’m sorry, but if your “freedom of speech” discriminates, insults, hurts others just because you think you know everything so much better, or you feel yourself so much better or you can’t stand them or whatever… Then I think you have to think twice before you open your mouth.
Salaam. A.
Funny, I seem to recall reading something about Belgium being crushed by Germany sometime in the forties, and the Americans helping out by getting rid of them.
Well, actually, it was mostly us Canadians, but the Americans came in handy.
Surely you remember World War Two. It was in all the papers.
So what… It was all altruistic? They jumped just into it because they couldn’t wait any longer after a few years?
Please… Keep it serious will you?
Nobody is saying that help wasn’t needed. But you just overlook a bit the heroic efforts of the British and those of other nations who made it to Britain and fought against the Germans until the US got involved.
Do you people have some “hero complex” that every time someone of Europe comes on a message board you wave the WWII flag or what is it?
Do you think there are only US and Canadian soldiers burried On Flanders Fields?
Do you know by the way, that every day - and I mean: every single day - since 1 july 1928, with exception for the time during the German occupation in WWII, the Last Post resounds at Ieper for those soldiers of all nations who lost their lives in WWI and after WWI also in honour of those of that war?
Poor soul… Aren’t you lucky you live in a country that wasn’t a
battlefield during so many periods of its history, no?
So what… It was all altruistic? They jumped just into it because they couldn’t wait any longer after a few years?
Please… Keep it serious will you?
Nobody is saying that help wasn’t needed. But you just overlook a bit the heroic efforts of the British and those of other nations who made it to Britain and fought against the Germans until the US got involved.
Do you people have some “hero complex” that every time someone of Europe comes on a message board you wave the WWII flag or what is it?
Do you think there are only US and Canadian soldiers burried On Flanders Fields?
Do you know by the way, that every day - and I mean: every single day - since 1 july 1928, with exception for the time during the German occupation in WWII, the Last Post resounds at Ieper for those soldiers of all nations who lost their lives in WWI and after WWII also in honour of those of that war?
Poor soul… Aren’t you lucky you live in a country that wasn’t a
battlefield during so many periods of its history, no?
Well, YES Aldebaran, there IS a different meaning of “Freedom” and “Rights” in the USA. Essentially the principle is that there is minimum interference of the state against your free speech. Interference by other common citizens even if they are being total tools and asses is allowed until they actually do or threaten harm to you.
But the key here… it’s different. But, NOT a sign of a “lack of respect”. Rather, it’s that in the USA they respect people who are willing to do their thing, express their viewpoint and deal with the consequences; and those who are willing to face hostile attitudes and by confronting them, overcome it. The position of shutting up so as to avoid risking any offense or confrontation is viewed as a way for people to hide their true feelings, without ever having to correct what’s wrong.
And Bryan, how in blue blazes is that relevant in any way? IIRC back in 1781 the French Navy helped George Washington win a certain batlle at Yorktown. Does that mean Yanks can’t rag on the Frenchies?
I’m perfectly serious. If you’re free to throw out factoids and anecdotal evidence of American evil, surely I’m free to cite historical facts of American generosity.
Maybe you can’t handle people who challenge your position. I am shocked, shocked, I tell you!
No, there were British and Australian and other nations on the side of the Western Allies, and I don’t intend to belittle the Russian contribution in the East, which was greater than any of the Allied nations (if not all of them put together).
Good! And the Canadians have a large memorial at Vimy Ridge. Such tributes are certainly well-deserved.
Well, those pesky Americans became a nuisance in 1812, plus those Fenian twerps… What’s your point?
Shalom. B.
I’d like a cite that radio host in the United States are calling for the murder of those they disagree with.
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Ah, so they are free as a bird to say anything they like just so long as it doesn’t offend someone.
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So this just rolls it all into one. In Belgium I can’t choose who I want to associate with and I can’t talk about anyone in a negative fashion for fear of breaking laws. You want to talk about unfreedom of speech you might want to look at Belgium first.
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We have plenty of respect for others. Not only that but we respect the concept of freedom of expression so much that we even protect the most vile and unpopular of all speech. It is unpopular speech that needs the most protection.
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Maybe. Or maybe you guys don’t have the balls to admit that some of your own citizens hold views which are similiar. You know what happens here when the KKK wants to march? People line up to protest. Our freedom of speech allows us to look at our ugly side and face it down. Your freedom of speech allows you to sweep things under the carpet and pretend it doesn’t exist.
If your freedom of speech is so limiting then you should think twice before using the word freedom.
So how would you characterize the Belgian colonization of Congo? Benevolent? Respectful? Non-discriminatory? Casting stones only works when your comparator is free from the same sorts of abuse.
I lived in Belgium for two years, and in many other countries over the years. They all have their foibles and weaknesses. It always amused me, for instance, to hear Germans castigate the U.S. for intolerance towards blacks, yet curse the Turks in the next breath.
If you have a hard-on for Americans, why not just say it, instead of couching your hatred in psuedo debate?
Well, I think laws against discrimination are needed to protect those who are a minority or in an other way defenseless.
So you think you can laugh with some one in a wheel chair or a blind person or someone else who is disabled, because you don’t like such people. You can laugh with them in their face and say you think they have no right to live or whatever? Because that is “free speech”.
I had a car accident when I was 18. I survived a coma of 3 days yet there is still something wrong with my back. So now and then I must use a cane for a certain period or I can hardly walk by myself. So if I meet you then, you are free to point at me in the middle of a public place and start laughing or declare that I’m disabled and should not be permitted to live because I’m abnormal or whatever?
Nice. You can count on it that my cane is going to hit you somewhere you won’t appreciate it. Yet there are people who wouldn’t have the force to use it to give you what you ask for, no?
Again: I find this highly unrespectful towards others if your attitude discriminates them, hurts them, harms them in any way.
We call such behaviour an astonishing gap in the way a person is raised and extreme rudiness
Not that I never say something that goes against the views of others. But I certainly won’t search to offend others or search a confrontation for the fun of it, just because I think I have something to say. What is the gain of such behaviour? You only make enemies or you become at the very least utterly boring for others.
But I have an other question: Why is it in your view so absolutely necessary to annoy someone else with what you feel? Do they ask to be bothered by you with that?
If one multi-millionaire celebrity, having sterling baseball credentials based on appearing the movie Bull Durham, is denied his or her right to give a speech at the Baseball Hall of Fame North Koreanesque prison camps for millions of political dissidents cannot be far behind. :eek: Even if the leader of the Hall of Fame later apologized for causing all the negavtive publicity he’d hoped to avoid in the first place. He said if he had it to do over he’d let them appear, sure…
Oh, again a disturbed flag waver… We had WWII and now we arrive at The Colony Sector.
Well let’s play that stupid ball a bit back: If you are not a native citizen of where you live, how does it feel to live on colonized land?
May I ask where you lived in Belgium? You don’t seem to have learned much there about its history or you would know the “the colony” began as the private dream of king Leopold. You should also know what the other Western nations were busy colonising at the time, no? By the way: People in Congo still like the Belgians.
Now stay serious and leave the childishness of “hatred” and so on out of it. I begin to think that half of the people posting on this website are hardly teenagers playing schoolground battles.
Look in a dictionary the definition of “hate” up and come again.
Wait. In all seriousness, no bullshit – is it really illegal to laugh at some people in Belgium? Who decides which people, or how much laughter is permissible? What are the penalties for laughing at someone in a wheelchair in Belgium? Is this something from the monarchy, or did a legislature pass this, or is it judicial or what? Is there a Belgian Board of Whom It’s Legal to Laugh At and Who It’s Not?
I honestly want to know the answers to those questions. How does this work?
Sorry? Where do I say there is no freedom of association?
It is in the article.
No, you are as free as a bird as long as you respect the law.
Let me say that you make a great effort to deliberatly so called misunderstand what I talk about and twist it until it fits your purpose.
Yes. I see that so called respect for others daily in the news.
First of all: such lunaticism like the KKK wouldn’t have a chance to pop up to begin with, let be that such a group could murder and attack and intimidate people for years.
So what are you with “lining up” now against something that shouldn’t be allowed to exist to begin with.
Or is forming a group of intimidators and murderers hiding behind their ridiculous white sheets also “freedom of speech”. Nice. You can keep it. Completely for free. Enjoy your lining up.
I like to have things in the open before it becomes dangerous for society, thank you. You seem to enjoy that dangerous criminal organisations are allowed to exist “under the carpet” and then after several years you “line up” against them.
Very noble of you.
Those who are killed by the KKK in the past and intimidated or undermined in the present will surely be grateful for the non existing law that forbids such organisations.
Go… go…KKK. Use the “freedom of speech” get your white sheet and your cross and burn one and an other.
Nice. But in my eyes highly immature and uncivilised. Sorry.
