The American Bar Association has the same attitude. It has issued guidance saying that lawyers holding J.D. degrees or other doctorate degrees may call themselves “doctor,” so long as they are not implying that they have expertise that they don’t have.
But the societal issue is that it’s not really about whether someone wants to call emself “doctor.” It’s really about whether other people want to call them doctor. I’ve noticed that there are some communities that really like addressing their religious leaders as “doctor.”
You would think that really smart people with years of education at university could understand that the same word can have different meanings, and that ultimately it is the popular usage of a term that determines its meaning.
A quick glance at etymology.com indicates that the use of “doctor” to mean what we would call a terminal degree dates from the late 14th century, and the usage to mean a medical practitioner dates from around 1400, with that meaning really becoming rooted in the popular sense in the late 16th century.
And of course, the term originally meant one of the most learned of theologians, a “Doctor of the Church”.
Different meanings of the same word. But I guess learned people can let their personal prejudices take sway over the history of the term, just like non-learned people can.
Well, yeah, if everyone else is 'Bob" or “Jimmy”, you’d be an ass to insist on “Dr”. But if the level of formality is such that everyone else is “Mr This” or “Ms. That”, then insisting on “Dr” is not out of line.
Who the hell uses titles in social situations anyway? It’s bizarre. Social situations would suggest first name terms to me.
Aside from that, if you have a PhD, then your title isn’t Mr/Ms, it is Doctor. So in situations where you might cite your title (I can only think of form filling or addressing a class), then I would imagine you would use Dr.
What doreen said. Is this a situation where they’d otherwise be introduced as “Mr. John Doe” or “Ms. Jane Doe”? Or is this a situation where they’d otherwise be introduced as “John” or “Jane” (with or without the last name)? If it’s the former, it’s totally appropriate IMHO for them to insist on the “Dr.” If it’s the latter, it’s maybe “a little boorish” (as Chingon said), but it would also be so for a physician, dentist, or veterinarian.
In my opinion, using titles such as “doctor”, “professor” or similar is justified only in the scientific environment - on forums and conferences among their colleagues. In other cases, it’s redundant and unnecessary. As for the “doctor” title, referring to non-medical doctors, it’s confusing.
First, I’d like to ask all the people saying “Well, in a social setting where everyone’s introducing themselves as Mr. Smith and Miss Jones…” WHAT kind of parties are you going to?
Second, Academic Doctor and Medical Doctor IS confusing.
From the brilliant Cabin Pressure, where the pilot, Martin (played oh so straight by Benzedrine Cumberbund) has been using the intercom asking if there’s a doctor on board and has noticed a “Dr. Price” on the manifest. Handy, as they have a man dying in the galley…
I don’t think anyone actually said parties but there are situations that aren’t really professional but aren’t really social either as well as situations that are professional for one person but not the other. The doctors* and other staff at most medical offices I go to call me “Ms Lastname” , the staff at my kids school called me " Mrs Husbands last name" even at social events. I’ve bought tickets to charitable functions and if I didn’t know the people running the function, they referred to me as “Ms Lastname” and certainly when I’ve been to work-related social events people don’t call me by my first name if they don’t do so at work (and few do)
The only exception is my PCP who I have been seeing for at least 25 years.
I’ll address either MD’s or those awarded doctorates as “Dr.” in professional settings, but not in any private settings. For that matter the only people I’d refer to by their titles in private settings are:
–really high government officials, say governor or higher
–priests (in my experience all Catholic priests prefer “Father”, while Episcopal priests tend to use a wide variety of titles).
I worked for many years in a non-academic University job. I had no degree, but people would ask (after learning that I worked at a University) such questions as: “What do you teach?” “Do you have tenure?” “Where did you get your doctorate?”
I would often get mail addressed to “Dr.” or “Prof.” just due to the University job.
If you are in a context where you would be calling people by their last names (Mr. Soandso or Ms. Suchandsuch), and a person has a doctorate in a field which is relevant to that context, then you should address them as Dr. Soandso. For instance, a researcher contacting another researcher who they don’t know personally, or a student addressing a professor, or a hospital paging a medical professional.
If you are in a context where you would be calling people by their last names, and a person has a doctorate in a field which is not relevant to that context, then you just call them Mr. or Ms., same as anyone else.
If you are in a context where you would be calling people by their first name, then you do the same for people with doctorates.
This applies regardless of whether the doctorate is a medical one or a real one.
There’s been a shift in usage for Catholic priests in the past few decades. It used to be that a priest was addressed as “Father Lastname”, but nowadays, it’s more common to find “Father Firstname”. The “Father” is still almost always included, though. Possibly relevant is that a priest’s social circles will usually consist primarily of their parishioners or other Catholics.
To think about a variant of this dilemma, what if your friend is a sheikh, mufti, earl, admiral, president, etc.? Are you really supposed to address him or her formally if you meet them at a party?
