Used car advice thread

In My Humble Opinion
1

I have to get some new wheels. My 2001 Chevrolet Prizm more or less gave up today. It has long had issues, pretty much since the day I bought it. Today it started its usual tap, which turned into a clatter that a diesel would be proud of, culminating in what sounded like a connecting rod banging around inside the engine. I’m pretty sure it has seen the end of its life. This doesn’t exactly trouble me, it’s been a great little car at a time when I needed a great little car. But now it needs to be replaced.

I have two criteria for the new wheels. First, it has to be a manual. My first car was a manual and I am good at driving them, so it’s not a “something different” sort of wish, I’m just sick to death of driving automatics. Automatics have been a necessary evil. Second, it has to be around $6000. A little higher, a little lower, doesn’t really matter.

I know that this will put me in the high mileage category, and in fact my research to this point shows that sometimes the mileage is REALLY high. That’s to be expected. But a few questions:

  1. How high is too high? Most of it has to be highway mileage, you can’t do 20,000 a year in the city unless you never get out of your car.

  2. Should I be more concerned about mileage or age?

  3. Which makes should I absolutely avoid with my criteria and with the mileage/age issues?

I’m looking at Subarus right now because I’m feeling kind of quirky, and I found a decent 2005 Altima right at my price threshold with 126K that I could probably live with. There are other possibilities.

So throw some stuff at me. I promise I won’t ignore your advice. I’m not married to anything right now.

2

I took a look at AutoTrader.com and a few other sites to see what I could buy within 100 miles of my home (Atlanta) priced at $6500 or less. Here are the makes and models that I search for-

2001-2003 Mazda Protege ES
2001-2003 Mazda Protege5 (ES 5-door)
2003-2006 Mazda6 i 4-door
2007 Hyundai Elanta GLS 4-door
2006 Hyundai Sonata GL 4-door
2005 Honda Civic VP 2-door
2003 Honda Civic Si 3-door
2007 Ford Focus S 3-door

Except for the ’05 Civic, all of the cars listed above had under 120k miles (the Civic had 168k). All were 5-speed manual, 2-owner or less, good condition, and being sold by individual or by used car dept of a new car dealer. Carfax/Autocheck clean (no accidents) on all.

Evidence (or proof) of proper maintenance is probably the MOST important thing with an older, higher mileage car. Be sure to check the CARFAX and AutoCheck reports (it’s well worth the $60 or so) AND have a mechanic inspect it also. Yes, it will cost you about $125-$150 for the history reports and inspection, but it could save you from making a mistake that will cost you THOU$AND$!

If the car has any ‘mods’ (spoilers, graphics, custom wheel/tires)- keep looking. You don’t want any “Fast & Furious” leftovers!

3

Serves you right for buying a Chevy. You should have bought something reliable like a Toyota Corolla! :wink:

Anyways,

1: depends on one’s comfort level and own personal theory of automotive reliability, but value-wise on a 5-10ish year car you’re going to start seeing some non-linear depreciation around 150k and really fast depreciation when you get around 200k. Which brings us to…

2: On the miles vs. age front, it really depends on how many miles*you[/I drive. You sort of want to aim for the inverse of your own driving habits in order to stay near average. IOW, if you do a ton of highway miles yourself, you probably want an older lower mileage car so you don’t get into to the seriously value-killing mileage ranges too fast. If you don’t drive too much, a newer car that has a lot of (presumably) highway miles can be a good deal, though.

3: In your price range, a good example is more important than lasering in on a specific model. My only cautions would be that in your price (and therefore age) range, you probably want to avoid VWs and you need to be savvy about looking at Subarus because some (but not all) of their models still had lingering issues into the mid-2000’s.

The Altima might be a good deal. They’ve become a rental fleet workhorse, which depresses their used market prices, but if this one’s a manual you know it wasn’t a rental car so none of the worries about abuse. I think manual Ford Focuses can be good bets for the same reason, and they newer ones (06 on or so) are pretty decent. You might even be able to get one of the new generation Fiestas for close to your budget if you don’t mind such a small car.

4

The Chevy Prizm IS a Toyota Corolla. It was a joint venture that the two companies ran in Fremont, CA. So is a Pontiac Vibe. Toyota love is largely a misplaced snob response based on 25 year old data.

I’d advise the OP to stay away from Hondas and Toyotas because of misguided individuals like the one above who have inflated the prices. Mazdas, Hyundais and Nissans are equally good at a lower price. I particularly like Mazdas, especially when combined with a manual transmission. The Ford Focus (and it’s predecessor the Escort) are good cars. Equal to the Japanese and usually cheaper because of prejudice against American cars.

Subarus are hardy but have the added complexity of four wheel drive. Higher maintenance costs and lower gas mileage. This will be a used car, can you be sure that the former owner kept up with the higher maintenance costs required for four wheel drive? You’ve gone this long without four wheel drive, you can probably continue.

Kia and Hyundai are the same company but Kias are built to a lower cost. I haven’t heard many complaints but I’d personally stick with Hyundai.

Stay away from Suzuki (the lowest Chevy is usually a Suzuki) and Mitsubishi. Both have patchy service records. Suzuki pulled out of the US market and Mitsubishi is barely hanging on.

Scion, Acura, Lexus and Infiniti are just upmarket flavors of Toyota and Nissan. If you get a deal, take it. They’re not markedly better, it’s a Chevrolet/Buick thing.

Volkswagens have a poor reputation for reliability and German cars often cost more to repair. On the flip side, they’re very practical and have nicer interiors. They also cost more to insure when new, check with your agent. I’ve never owned a VW beyond a '67 Beetle but I’ve considered them several times as a new car. I was always discouraged by personal accounts and magazine articles.

5

I’ve always felt that age is more important than mileage, at least for 21st century cars. With plastic radiators and other plastic parts, all the electronics, and rubber seals, when they get old, they all seem to fail at once. There are systems that do fail with mileage, namely suspension parts, brakes, clutch, but, surprisingly, not the engine. With modern oils and fuel control systems, the engines should last 200,000+ miles provided they get regular maintenance.

I’d take a 5-6 year-old car with 100-130,000 miles on it that had regular maintenance over a 10 year-old car with only 50-75,000 miles. First, the high mileage car will be discounted because of the mileage (the 100,000 mark is a big one). Second, the high mileage car probably had regular maintenance or it wouldn’t still be running. Third, you can still get manufacturer-only parts for the 5-6 YO car, but past 10 years, you might find parts hard to come by. If the climate control unit goes out because the elastomers are shot on a 10+ YO car, you might only be able to find junk yard parts (out of similar-aged vehicles), but you can buy a brand new one for the 6YO car from the dealer.

Another thing to keep in mind. When you buy the high mileage car, use some of the money you save to rebuild the brakes (new calipers, rotors, even master-cylinder and booster if they show age), consider rebuilding the suspension, since most modern cars have sealed suspensions and can’t be greased, which means they are only going to hold up for 100-150,000 miles. Yes, this can add an extra 1000-1500 to the cost of the car, but if you take care of it up front, you won’t have to worry about them later, and if you plan on putting 50-70,000 miles on the car, you these systems will probably go out during that period.

Good luck

excavating (for a mind)

6

Hey, is the internet convention that winky face = “the preceding was a joke” no longer in effect or what?

I do agree with avoiding, or at least not specifically seeking out, Toyotas and Hondas in the used market, but I’m betting that the OP will figure that out for themselves after seeing how old a $6k Honda or Toyota is going to be.

Also to nitpick, Acura is Honda’s upmarket flavor and Scion is sort of Toyota’s downmarket brand.

7

I’m pretty sure that GreasyJack intended this to be funny/sarcastic and probably knows that the Corolla and Prism were twins!

NUMMI (New United Motor Manufacturing, Inc.), a joint venture between GM and Toyota, initially produced the 1984 Chevrolet Nova and 1984 Toyota Corolla at the Fremont, CA plant. My best friend’s mom had a 1981 Chevette and, by 1984, it had 70k miles on it and was beyond falling apart.

I was only 9yrs old, but I could identify most car makes and models before I could say my ABCs! She test drove a Cavalier and, as horrible as it was, it was still a big step up from the '81 'Vette. I talked her into driving the only '84 Nova they had on the lot and she was AMAZED at how much better it was than the Cavalier parked next to it and for about the same price!

She bought it and kept it for 11 years and almost 300k miles. Some dumbass rear-ended her and totaled it when it had 298k miles on the clock and was still going strong…it probably would’ve sold better if they hadn’t revived the Nova name and called it something else…

The Fremont, CA plant is now operated by Tesla Motors.

8

I’m just basing the following statement on my own observations over the years, so it’s just an opinion-

The majority of drivers who choose to drive a vehicle with a manual transmission tend to keep them for a long time and maintain them meticulously! It stands to reason that knowing how to drive a manual and choosing to do implies that the driver has a bit more mechanical knowledge than the average person.

I’ve been driving for 23 years and just bought my first automatic five months ago! I still have my 2006 Mazda3 5-speed manual, but I bought a new (leftover) 2012 Mazda CX-9 back in November. Obviously, the CX-9 only comes with a 6-speed automatic, but the 273hp 3.7L V6 backing it up makes it tolerable.

Anyway, one of the most expensive potential repairs on a high-mileage car is replacing the automatic transmission. So at least you don’t need to worry about a few thousand bucks whenever it decides the transmission dies! Unless it has been abused, a manual gearbox should easily last the life of a vehicle. And you can get a sense of how much life is left in the clutch during a test drive.

9

Well, it looks like I might have found something.

2002 Honda Accord, essentially matching the 2001 we already have for Robin only a manual, and the Carfax indicates that the second (and most recent owner) kept it well-maintained. Even the price is right.

I know, be prepared to walk away. I am prepared to walk away. I have four others I’m looking at, including that Altima, though that got a bit of a black mark when I got there and found a battery cable that needed to be adjusted indicating that the dealer doesn’t take good care of their stock. It was clean and when I jumped it with Robin’s car it started and everything worked, but there’s still some lingering doubts to deal with. Another is a low-mileage Beetle, though it is older and I cringe at the idea of old Vee-Dubs.

We’ll see how this one turns out.

10

2002 was the final year for that generation of Accord and, other than some A/T issues, they were very reliable. How many miles does it have on it? It’s a 5-speed, right? LX, EX, DX?

Hopefully it will pan out if it’s a solid car. An old VeeDub sounds pretty harsh, the Beetle managed to avoid landing in the LEAST safe spot in the 70s thanks to the Ford Pinto. Both crumpled easier than a Dixie cup, but the Beetle didn’t explode upon impact…so at least your mama had something to bury, unlike the poor souls in a Pinto! I’ve actually seen some photos of actual Pinto fires, it made me lose my lunch, literally…

Anyway, hope the Accord works out…let us know…

11

My 1996 Accord simply will not die. 220K+ and marvelously reliable with very little repair needed. Manual so it is really fun to drive (I even took it autocrossing last year.) I’ve gone out new car shopping a few times and haven’t found anything I like better. I hope you join the ranks of happy Honda owners!

12

I had a '92 Accord EX 4-door 5-speed for years and sold it with 280k miles on it to a guy who works for my dad. He just turned 400k miles and all it’s had is a valve job around 300k and needed head gasket at same time. I replaced the original clutch around 170k and he just had it replaced at 390k. Other than that, it’s syne thic oil every 7500 miles, timing belts every 90k and not much else!

The clear coat on the paint is gone (I had a garage, he doesn’t) so the Frost White paint is sort of a dull, matte finish now. But no dents or scratches and the Smurfy Blue cloth interior still looks like new except some minor wear on the driver’s seat thigh bolster.

It has to be one of the most over-engineered, over-built cars in the world! I’ve only driven one car that topped it, and I was lucky enough to own that car for almost three years- a 1994 Acura Legend L Sedan. It was also Frost White but had Taupe Cloth and the rare 5-speed manual. That sweet 3.2L V6 and 5-speed were amazing together and so much fun to drive. A drunk MoFo ran a red light and t-boned me as I was making a left turn (with a turn arrow). He was in a jacked-up Ford F250 4x4 and the Legend was demonlished almost beyond recognition (cop had to ask me what kind of car it was as he wrote up the report). I had some bruises, cuts, a broken ankle and two broken fingers, but it could have been SO much worse! The passenger-side door panel had my right leg pinned to the driver’s side floorboard, if that gives you an idea- it was in the middle of the car!

The impact was so hard that the roof buckled and it shattered the windshield. That sent the rearview mirror hurling into my skull, where it deposited most of the glass shards!!! I ended up with 37 staples in my skull and still have a helluva scar if I have my hair cut too short and it’s been almost 12 years ago! But everyone, from the cops, medics, tow truck driver and even the guy who ran the Honda/Acura salvage yard that bought it all said they couldn’t believe anyone got out of it alive, much less without permanent, debilitating injuries!

The Legend saved my life, I’ve tried to find a similar one over the years but haven’t found it yet! I’d love a '94 or '95 Sedan, the top-end GS with 6-speed manual and high-output 3.2L from the Coupe would be a dream come true…but any Legend in good condition is very rare these days…

They really don’t make 'em like they used to!

13

That didn’t take long at all. The Accord (with 145,000 miles, for the record) was smooth, the clutch pedal was firm with good clutch engagement, and the rest of the car worked and was really clean. As I said before, the record indicates excellent maintenance. So I claimed it. It should be ready for pickup on Monday.

So now we (will) have two virtually identical Accords, one manual and one automatic. Looks like I get to teach the wife and son how to drive a stick. And God help me when I do.

14

Learning to drive a manual is exponentially easier and quicker in a Honda than using any other ‘learning’ vehicle. I was taught on a my sister’s '85 Nissan 300ZX, white with blood red velour interior, digital instruments covering every inch of the dashboard and the heaviest clutch I’ve ever had the displeasure of using! The 5-speed gearbox was similar to a wooden spoon in a bowl of marbles at times, and smooth but notchy at others. And the 160hp 3.0L V6 was pretty lame in retrospect, 0-60mph took a solid 9.0sec. But Nissan tweaked the throttle so it felt like it had twice the hp and made smooth starts all but impossible unless you were willing to slip the clutch enough to shave 5-6k off its life!

But somehow I still remember driving it, t-tops out, upgraded ‘hi-fi’ premium AM/FM cassette stereo blasting late 80s pop crap and mom patientialy letting me “grind 'em 'til you find 'em” quite a few times! She usually intervened if the smell of the burning clutch and/or gearbox caused us to cough uncontrollably…

I thought the digital dash was the coolest thing ever, too! Now when I see a photo of a ZX dash like it, I start hearing “Mr Roboto” playing in my head! And wonder how that ever seemed like a good idea to anyone vs. big, round, white on black dials like you have in the Accord…