Does anyone have the Straight Dope on this incident? IIRC, the USS Liberty was about seven miles offshore, keeping tabs on the Egypt-Israel hostilities in the late 60’s, when Israeli jets and motorboats attacked.
Several sailors were killed, and the ship was shot up pretty bad. The rumor mill stated that Israel wanted it to look like the Egyptians did it to lure in the US on their side of the conflict.
Are the statements above correct?
Did we ever impose sanctions on Israel for it?
Did they ever apologize or make reparations for the sailors they killed?
For all intents and purposes, the US was already on Israel’s side. Besides, Israel was doing just fine against the Arab countries without any direct military support from the US.
Israel said it was an accident. The US Navy said it was an accident. Israel apologized and made reparations. The only people that don’t think it was an accident are Americans who have an axe to grind with Israel, like isolationists, pro-Palistinian groups, and anti-semites.
There were also rumors that it was spying on both sides of the conflict and the Israelis hit it intentionally. I believe, although it’s been some time since I read it, that an account of it was made in the book “The Puzzle Palace”. TPP is a book about the NSA and the rest of the US intelligence community. I believe that there was also a book the Liberty incident itself.
I’d read a little on this subject before, but didn’t have much time earlier.
Since I fall in none of the named groups, I’ll have to beg to differ, Ursa. There appears to be some body of evidence to the contrary, and you don’t have to be a very wild-eyed conspiracy fan to find it palpable.
The story line is that the Liberty was a communications intercept ship that had the potential capability to pick up Israeli communications that would reveal their intent to occupy the Golan Heights, a move opposed by LBJ. As an expedient towards fulfilling that goal, and avoiding a diplomatic row with the U.S. in the middle of a fast-paced (six day) war, the decision was made to neutralize the possible source of information to the U.S. President. The Liberty was essentially unarmed (two .50 cal MG) and the compelling thing about the dissent from the official line is the body of tales from crewmen and some supporting evidence of air defense recalled at the behest of the President. Israel could effect this plan knowing that the U.S. would likely not call them on it. There’s more, and of course this episode has been picked up by Israel’s enemies. I don’t count myself amongst them. Nevertheless, I find it harder to believe the accidental scenario than I do the calculated move scenario.
Beatle got it about right [although it unusual to disagree with Ursa !]. For public information, look up the sites already listed, the magic.net address being the more complete. IIRC, there was also some question about strafing sailors who already abandoned ship; inexcusable target abuse, even for enemies.
O le mea a tamaali’i fa’asala, a o le mea a tufanua fa’alumaina.
Wow, only took one post to be called an anti-Semite. That exceeded my wildest expectations. That’s usually the answer I get when I bring this up to someone who wasn’t in the Navy, but not usually so fast.
Let’s see-we’re talking about a nation that had its agents kill a scientist working with Iraq (Gerald Bull, IIRC), fly into a neutral country and conduct attacks on hijackers (Entebbe), and builds a shrine to a fellow that executed a bunch of unarmed arabs while they were praying (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/middle_east/newsid_582000/582426.stm). I dunno about you, but I don’t think that attacking a friendly ship to further some unknown agenda is too far of a leap, especially if it served a purpose that would ultimately be detrimental to their arab enemies.
Personally, I love jewish folks. Studied Yiddish and Hebrew to help me understand them better, learned some basics about their culture, served with them in the army, lived with them in college, play hockey with them. But, Israel reminds me of the neighborhood bully’s best friend-they know that if they picked a fight they couldn’t win, the US would be sending aid posthaste. If another small friendly nation, say Greece, pulled the same stuff, would we treat them the same?
Obviously there’s more to the story than my brief acquantence with the topic has revealed to me. Until now, I have only heard the “intentional attack” theory from the types of groups I listed. Considering the source, it was easy to discount. I have the greatest respect for the knowledge and integrity of folks like Beatle and Jorge. I bow to their opinion until I’ve revisited the incident.
Spankboy, I didn’t call you an anti-semite. I considered your OP to be an honest question, but I do think my objections to the motive you heard from the “rumor mill” are still valid.
I was officer of the deck when the ship was attacked and am author of “Assault on the Liberty” (Random House) which tells the story.
The fact that this was a deliberate attack and that Israel has never told the truth about it is supported by every known survivor of the attack including the ship’s commanding officer, and also by such well known and responsible people as former Secretary of State Dean Rusk, former NSA and CIA director Admiral Bobby Inman, former JCS Chairman Admiral Tom Moorer, and a long list of others of like reputation.
So, it begs the question, why was there no congressional hearing, or naval inquiry? You would think, that if the Israeli story would hold up, that they would present the case and be done with it. Their refusal to do so damns them as guilty, IMHO.
Something else that bugs me (lifted from the Liberty site):
Yikes, talk about spin doctoring. Friends like that…
Nope, I was looking for information-I saw a snippet on the History Channel and wanted more info. But, I have been in other conversations with folks in RL where Israel pops up (Gerald Bull, for example), and anyone who doesn’t agree with Israel’s view is so labelled.
Or, are you baiting me into some sort of troll stance?
Doesn’t matter. I got the URL I needed (thanks, Jim), so think what you want.
<< Yep…It’s easy to mistake a ship flying the American flag for something else. >>
I’m not taking a position here, but just a reminder that in a recent bombing run (last year), U.S. bombers took out the Chinese embassy in Prague. Mistakes do happen. Whether a mistake happened in the Liberty case, I don’t know, but some pretty stupid mistakes have happened in battles and wartime.
No; often, worse. Fighting for the Allies in WWII, Greeks lost some 30+% of the male population to war with both the Italians, who they held off unassisted, and the Germans, who ultimately occupied. At the Crimea summit after the war (where the Treaty of the Dodecanese set up alot of the Eastern Med borders and rivalries that exist today), both Roosevelt and Churchill nearly signed off most of the Aegean islands to Turkey (an Axis nation, and occupying force over Greece for a few hundred years). Stalin kept the islands “Greek”, albeit [presumably] as a bone thrown to pacify the Eastern Orthodox church. Think the Greeks were upset with the US ?
To make things worse, the US bought off Turkey’s assistance in stopping the heroin trade (and continuing base access) in 1974 by guaranteeing military weapons sales in a certain proportion to Greek US military assistance, promptly encouraging the invasion of Cyprus - while taking Greek base access for granted. (“Hey, we didn’t send heroin to the US ? Why are we getting screwed ?”)
Remember: you can go right now to Turkey and buy a map in any shop which gives the Turkish name for many islands in the Aegean. Imagine that maps sold in Mexico City had renamed towns from Texas to California with Spanish names, and were supported in this by Cuba. We’d be calling for nukes.
Won’t even bother to lay out the convoluted business of the military coup & martial law there, either…
We often screw our allies and help our enemies by taking the former for granted, and by keeping the latter “inside the tent pissing out” in LBJ’s immortal phrase. Worse yet, those lines get blurred…
In other words, whatever is expedient in realpolitik, esp. where the issue is barely understood (“what the heck is a Mytilene ?”), or not the concern of any major bloc of voters back in the US (the Greek-American, or Indonesian-American vote ain’t gonna swing many elections…)
Concerning the discussion of the USS LIBERTY, without offending anyone let me state the facts as I know them as a survivor, an eye witness and a representativeof the crew as the senior enlisted man on board at the time fo the attack:
Israeli planes over flew us 14 times the day of the attack, the last one just an hour or so before the attack. This flight was so low it was at the level of the LIBERTY’S main deck, I waved at the pilot, he waved back.
The first flight of Israeli planes were heard saying this was an American ship, the attack took place anyway.
3)The American flag was flying in a stiff breeze ( I saw it clearly), it was replaced by the holiday flag, which is much larger (ever seen a flag over a Perkins?, like that!)
After the torpedo hit the ship, life rafts were dropped over the side in preparation of “Abandon Ship”, these life rafts were machine gunned and sunk by the torpedo boats. There were meant to be no survivors.
The attack only ceased and assistance offered after U.S. planes were launched to come to our assistance. These were recalled, relaunched and recalled again. Strange since our SOS id not indicate who the attackers were!
There have been never ending reasons by Israel for the attack ie, mistook us for an Egyptian freighter, an Egyptian destroyer, etc. all nonsense considering the Israel’s intelligence procedures, and how this ship covered with a large array of sophisticated antennas, size etc., could not compare to any other ship. Not to mention the huge letters GTR-5 on the forward hull and the large U.S. flag. The latest story in a recent book states we were there intercepting Israeli intelligence and giving this info to the Egyptians. Since we didn’t get on the scene until the 4th day of the six day war and Egypt was essentially already out it. Plus we had no Hebrew speaking personnel on-board to preform this operation.
The cover-up and never ending change of stories from Israel are understandable, but the cover-up and lack of concern by the U.S. government and U.S. Military extablishment can only be described as disgusting.
Before you readers judge this affair and put labels on anyone, investigate and ask questions. We are American veterans not biased bigots looking to embarass or hurt anyone!