VA Tech shooter sent package to NBC News

Now they’re blaming movies too.

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/18/updates-on-virginia-tech/

In that same movie, the same actor eats an octopus alive. So . . . are there a higher incidents of such crimes since Old Boy came out? If a guy’s gonna snap, he’s gonna snap. Just because he models his snappage after a movie in no way suggests the movie caused it.

None if we continue along the same path as we are now.

Exactly. But not enough to convince the PTB. Which is one of the other lessons that this tragedy offers.

Really, did anyone think that the media wasn’t going to suggest this? I’m waiting for the next Marylin Manson or Grand Theft Auto that the right side of the media is going to blame this on.

At least all that site said was that he modeled a picture after the movie and that the link was worth exploring.

Jack Thompson already blamed GTA – before the news media even knew the shooter’s name, no less.

What strikes me is that seemingly every single person who knew this guy thought he was a major head case. IIRC, one person even said something like, “I was afraid he’d turn into a shooter one day.” It really sounds like this guy should have been committed to a psych ward somewhere.

Do you want the hard truth, or do you want the party line?

I know deep down that his “manifesto” should probably not be available for public viewing, because it would seem like that would only be encouraging this behaviour. But honestly, I want to see it really really bad.

In this new world of the internet super-media, does anyone think that these documents can even be kept from the public? Look how long it took before anybody with a computer was able to download and watch Saddam being hung, even though it was never supposed to air.

Honestly? I’m a psychologist and it’s probably easier to get someone off on an insanity plea than it is to convince a judge (and that is who you have to convince) to keep someone hospitalized against their will for longer than 72 hours. At least in California. Unlike enemy combatants, habeus corpus applies to mental patients. They have to be flinging poo, threatening to set the judge on fire and/or willing to unamibiguously state that they WILL (not want to) kill themselves if released. Stack that up against a college kid who hasn’t actually done anything. You can’t put people in jail for crimes you think they might commit and you can’t involuntarily hospitalize someone for ambiguous “indicators”. Believe me, it’s frustrating. I’ve had patients who scare the crap out of me and the police won’t even take them in for a 72 hour hold. I can’t imagine why they didn’t kick him out of school, though. It’s not like they are OBLIGATED to keep him matriculated.

He was put on an emergency hold. He denied suicidal ideation. He was able to convince the docs he was not a danger to himself or others. They weren’t able to hold him. (I’ve only seen a limited amount of information on this. I assume he was put in a 24 hour emergency hold.)

Did I hear correctly watching NBC’s national broadcast last night that the package was sent from “Ismail”? If so, HazelNutCoffee’s clarification in Rilchiam’s thread about the implication of writing a person’s name in red may suggest an insight into the “Ismail Ax” in red ink he scrawled on the inside of his arm. Dead man sending. What a creepy, plotting son of a bitch.

Before, when all we had were static, still pictures of him, he seemed more of a sad, lost figure. Now, especially with all the planning, documentation and incoherent, “I’m a victim” bullshit he’s produced, I find myself viewing him in an utterly despicable light.

As to whether his views should be made public, it’s not like anyone would accept his portrayal of events, his view of who was the victim, his account of what injustices he’d suffered. He was a goddamn loon. That’s what he’s made obvious through his writings. Make it public. What he wanted, the picture he tried to paint is absolutely shattered by making his pictures and manifesto available to all.

The focus of all this is as it should be, on just how incredible and admirable the 32 were and those still in recovery. That’s what I think we’ll take from this, not that some fucking nut got to make a statement. The beauty of those lives shines through. They’re simply impossible to restrain and we won’t ever forget.

Sounds like a few posters here.

I’m Amazed that “Today” had a discussion about how they argued if they should show the pictures or not… and Matt Lauer alluded to some people in the studio not wanting to go along with it.

Its Amazing that NBC can debate showing pictures… yet ALL of them have the NBC NEWS sticker on it.

A “multi-tasker”!

That’s being discussed in the Pit, too. Distasteful as it looks, NBC is the source for those photos and it’s proper for other outlets to credit NBC.

I can’t agree with you more. I was happy to hear about the package. Why? Not because I’m a sick voyeur, but because I want to know why he did it. Mass murderers are rare, and we obviously don’t fully understand the workings of their minds. If this manifesto can let us see a little bit more of what was going on inside his head, then maybe it can help prevent it from happening again.

In the very least it can satisfy my curiosity – I wanna know how a person can go so far off the deep end and why. It makes me feel a little better about tragedies like this if I can explain them. If the guy had done this without making a peep, the mystery surrounding the murders would’ve driven me nuts. As far as I’m concerned, he did everybody a favor by recording his thoughts for others to study.

I don’t know, 1800 words? You’d probably get timed out.

You gotta compose your manifesto in Word and paste it into your post :smiley:

I think this is what is scaring people so much. It’s not about guns or the lack of guns; it’s about how dangerous this guy was, how it went virtually unnoticed, and what was noticed, there was nothing done about it and nothing that could be done about it. In other words, we have no protection against this kind of thing at all.

It was recognized, to a degree. Yes, it’s good and bad that when he was put on a 24-hour hold that he was able to convince the judge to let him go. To clarify, I myself have been put on a 24-hour emergency hold which was not warranted (ask me how many times I said to everyone, “I don’t belong here. When am I going to be released?”). The bad is that it is possible to convince the judge to let you go when you shouldn’t. I’m not sure of what the solution is if the person is cognizant enough to give the right answers that get him out.

But I do think it’s progress that we have gotten to a point where the shooter’s behavior was seen as being seriously not right and he was picked up and put on that hold. Remember, it was acquaintences that “dropped the dime”. I hope we continue to evolve in this aspect and no one (teachers, roommates, parents) will no more let mental illness fester any more than they would walk past a bleeding man on the street.

I hope I’m making my point clear. No matter what was going on in this person’s life, no matter what had happened in the past, no matter the depth of his illness, he alone is responsible for his actions. I realize holding people who don’t merit being held in psychiatric facilities is to be avoided, but society does seem to be moving towards recognizing the danger and acting on it. I also think it’s good that society is starting to realize the dangers of bullying and working to stop it. You just don’t know who has the emotional strength to overcome it and who is going to be driven to violent rage. I think there were many many more issues that resulted in this tragedy, but you just don’t know what’s going to be the tipping point that sends someone off on this kind of trajectory.