Cool, thanks!
I was going to send this via PM, but my text was too long (imagine that). :smack:
I’m simply responding directly to your points and questions, in many cases simply playing ‘devil’s advocate’ to give you more to think about
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They are inexpensive = advantage over pricey weapons like swords
Well, as with any weapon, you can buy cheap, you can buy expensive, and you can surprise yourself by finding that price and quality are not always correlated (or inversely correlate) at all. Really well-balanced sai will not be cheap. -
They are fairly small = advantage over large, conspicuous weapons like the bo staff
They are certainly more concealable than staves or swords, but they’re still not typically hidden in the trousers. Even tucking nunchaku in the waistband makes it really tough to sit. On a side note, in most states it’s very illegal to have a martial arts weapon (like sai, nunchaku, escrima sticks, etc.) within reach in a car. (They’re supposed to be in the trunk when you’re transporting them to/from the dojo.) -
They also serve as a shield.= advantage over many weapons
Particularly with weapons from asiatic martial arts, most of them are designed to be both offensive and defensive tools. Tonfa, nunchaku, staves, and even swords are cool that way, but it’s also important to understand that European swords, hammers, etc can be and are frequently employed for defense and offense. -
Blunt (hard to hurt yourself, low-maintenance, and less lethal if you want them to be) = advantage over edged weapons (also has disadvantages, of course.)
I’ve combined your two notes, above. While typical sai are not sharpened along an edge, there are some comic-book characters that use custom-made edged sai and the Grandmaster reputed to have introduced the sai to westerners (Fumio Demura) shows off a custom-designed sai that he had someone adapt from bayonets. However, for practical purposes, I noticed that the sharp edge of the special sai that Master Demura presents in his video would press against the length of the forearm and be jammed into that muscle during the impact of a proper block. So that’s not necessarily going to work for real usage. The Marvel character Elektra also uses sai with double-edged ‘tangs’ but, even in the movie, it’s easy to fudge the effective blocking by just blurring motion and assuming she’s good enough to do perfectly appropriate techniques every time. In the real world, she’d shred her own arms when blocking properly (see below). Note, by the way, that sai (or staves or nunchaku, for that matter) with angular (rather than rounded) sides are designed that way so that the corner edges deliver energy to those focused points. -
Indestructible = = advantage over many weapons
I’ve actually seen wooden versions of sai in a martial arts history museum. Note also that sai can get nicked or dented or bent – particularly if you’re throwing them around. Most sai are crappy for throwing because their balance point is between the hooks, and, over a distance which would encourage throwing the thing, that would tend to be enough distance for the heavy end to tumble forward, thereby hitting the target with the end of the handle (the “pommel”)
…A nunchaku cord could break, etc.
This is a separate discussion, but many modern nunchaku are produced with chains in the middle, rather than cord. -
Throw-able (Sai technique includes throwing.) = advantage over many weapons
See above. If an aggressor is close enough to throw the sai at with intention of making contact with the point first, a prudent practitioner would wait for the distance to close and use better techniques that retain control and possession of the weapon. -
Yoku (curved cross guards) protect hands.= advantage over many weapons
Do not mistake the Yoku for the equivalent of a basket-hilt on, for instance, a Spanish rapier. The yoku will cross and protect the handle in a way similar to a tsuba – in case an incoming weapon slides down the tang during combat – and they are also intentionally curved to trap incoming weapons when used with particular techniques. The main use of the sai for blocking is in running the tang along the palm-side of the wrist and using the wrist (as opposed to the hands) to block incoming weapons. There are also some techniques in which the tangs are extended forward and used in pairs to block and sometimes trap weapons. They are not often used to block or deflect with the tang extended, as one would do with a foil or maine gauche. [It’s possible, but an experienced sai practitioner would wonder who taught the person do to such an odd technique.) -
Formidable, credibly dangerous appearance… This is a pretty subjective factor…especially if they are unarmed.
I really think this is a matter of the weapon being exotic and relatively unfamiliar to Westerners. I remember seeing a movie ostensibly set in the 1920’s in which the teen-aged Brooklyn punks were using butterfly knives. They were apparently really really bad guys because of that – except that the Phillipino combat knife (bali-sung, known much later as a butterfly knife) was pretty much unknown before WWII and street punks in the 1920’s Atlantic region would never have been able to get their hands on matched collections.
Some disadvantages:
- Limited reach.= disadvantage over bo, many swords, three-section staff, chain-based weapons, etc.
The common way to overcome that limitation is to use the inherent seperability of the weapons, moving in close and blocking with one hand while turning sideways and striking with the other.
I was watching a video with a guy doing wicked bo spins, and I don’t even know how you’d attack such a person with sai.
Spinning a staff, a pair of sai, a chain weapon, nunchaku, or whatever can be awe-inspiring and even beautiful. Gymnastics can be beautiful. Knowing how to effectively use a weapon is often quite a different matter. In general, spinning a weapon is a waste of time or a flashy insubstantial performance one can do to show off when there’s clearly a couple extra seconds of spare time during an encounter. The best that can be said for doing such a thing during a fight is that it forces the spinner to relax a bit, which can be important because too much muscle tension actually slows reaction time.
As an aside, you seem to be thinking about these weapons too exclusively. A really good martial artist will also include punches, kicks, whatever, when appropriate even though there’s a weapon in his hands.
How would sai do versus a sword? nunchaku? Three-section staff? and so on?
All of that depends very much on the practitioner, not on the weapon itself. Particularly with weapons of the East Asian martial arts, the typical maxim is that the weapon is an extension of the hands and the person needs to know how to move and fight before he/she adds the complexity of a weapon. [The side-comment above applies here, again.] This is a critical point for your writing – unless you’re writing fantasy material in which the weapons have their own spirits and/or minds. If your character knows how to use sai, and can do so effectively against ____, then either you as the writer need to know how to use the sai passably well, or you’ll need some input from a trained martial artist. Yes, there are certain things that certain weapons can do that other weapons can’t do – but if the wielder’s (and writer’s) mind isn’t up to the task, those special techniques will never be deployed.
Overall, if you’re thinking your character wants to use a weapon that can block along the wrist like sai but still have an edge for dealing damage, you might look into what are now known as Butterfly Swords. They’re a weapon from Chinese arts like kung fu and wu shu; they were originally called “butterfly knives” but modern language has shifted that term to the Phillipino blade mentioned above. And for really really exotic, check out the chakram of northern India on a show called Weapon Masters.
–G!
Feel free to ask more; I’m sure I left out various explanations.
That am me!
Bo knows sighs.
Thanks, very informative!
Nah, share the wisdom with ALL! But I thank you.
I could see sharpening the point, but I think sharpened edges would defeat the basic concept of the weapon, as you point out.
I don’t think hitting with the pommel would be much less damaging than hitting with the tip. Either would be highly unpleasant with any kind of force behind the throw.
Hence the advice I’ve seen to have a third sai in the belt. I’ve thought about a home invasion scenario in which someone has a gun (and I don’t, nor would want to). You whip one of these into the dude’s face and then charge with the other one. Not ideal, but it gives you some chance of survival.
Interesting story!
I think sai look badass in their own right. Tonfa, for example, would not appear scary if you brandished them in a street fight (that is, no scarier than a baseball bat or other ad hoc street weapon). Now if you could whip them around and show some technique, then sure (as would be true of anything). Sai just have a certain something.
I think showing a bit of technique could cause an attacker to back down, which is probably what you’re going for anyway.
True of course, but I bet we’d see divergent percentages for sai vs. bo, sai vs. katana, and katana vs. bo, assuming top-level masters for each weapon. Just as an example.
Thanks again for your input!
Real world answer : weapons don’t really matter much in a street fight, because you’re not going to get into an *even *street fight. The guys jumping you have the advantage of being able to pick when and where and why there’s going to be a fight, and whether it’s worth it. And those guys aren’t into risks.
So in my experience, you’re never (or hardly ever) jumped by one dude, or if you do that dude has a fucking gun.
So the paradigm is : what good is a sai, or nunchuks, or a can of mace, against eight guys cornering you ? And the answer is, of course, “about as good as a chocolate hammer”. Sure, you might stick one guy. Then his buddies stomp you even *harder, *for harming their mate.
[QUOTE=Measure for Measure]
Fun fact: the sai evolved from the Okinawa instrument used to plant crops. “Honestly Mr. Samurai, I’m just going about my business!”
[/QUOTE]
Nah, you’re thinking of nunchuks, which indeed evolved from rice flails/threshers, and indeed were “innocently” carried by peasants and monks. Same goes for bo and similar reinforced cudgels (both in Japan and in Europe) : this here’s me walkin’ stick, squire ! Can’t expect me to trek all over these bad roads without it, me poor feet, woe is me, treacherous paths and such, you unnerstan’.
Sai are an evolution, or a subtype, of the jitte, which was the non-lethal weapon of Japanese cops trying to police drunken samurai with razor-sharp swords without rising above their own stations. Kind of a medieval taser : the point is that you can trap the sword (even bend or break it) between the prongs of the sai. At which point you and your buddies get to kick the everliving shit out of the samurai. But not kill him, 'cause then it’s your head next.