Veterinarian brags about killing a cat

Obviously neither you nor Bricker know the difference between Informal and Formal Fallacies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Informal_fallacyAn informal fallacy is an argument whose stated premises may fail to adequately support its proposed conclusion.[1] The problem with an informal fallacy often stems from reasoning that renders the conclusion unpersuasive. In contrast to a formal fallacy of deduction, the error is not a flaw in logic.

Let me restate that last: In contrast to a formal fallacy of deduction, the error is not a flaw in logic

Bricker quoted Appeal to consequences

*Appeal to consequences, also known as argumentum ad consequentiam (Latin for “argument to the consequences”), is an argument that concludes a hypothesis (typically a belief) to be either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences. This is based on an appeal to emotion and is a type of informal fallacy,
*

Again, let me restate that last:
Appeal to consequences…is… a type of informal fallacy,

Thus* Appeal to consequences* is not a flaw in logic.

Both you and Bricker clearly don’t know the difference.
In philosophy, a formal fallacy is a pattern of reasoning which is rendered invalid due to a flaw in its logical structure which can neatly be expressed in standard system of logic, for example propositional logic.[1] An argument that is formally fallacious is always considered to be wrong. A formal fallacy is contrasted with an informal fallacy, which may have a valid logical form and yet be unsound because one or more premises are false.

You logic is unsound, as well is your knowledge of Logic. It’s absolutely astonishing that even you don’t know this. It certainly puts a permanent pall over any argument you try to make from now on, as you’ve just openly shown that you don’t know how logic works.

You know what’s really choice dudes and dudettes? Bricker claims he is a lawyer, and a defense lawyer to boot. You know what another term for “Appeal to consequences” is- (that “logical fallacy” that he sez I am so very wrong to use on this* message board*)? It’s called “an appeal to emotion”. Really Bricker? *You have never made an emotional argument for your client in the courtroom? * (or elsewhere). No appeals to the jury, no appeals for mercy? :dubious::dubious::dubious:

And of course, since you object to it’s use here, in a very informal forum called the BBQ Pit on a rather informal fucking message board- you must “object” in the courtroom right? When the People does their closing argument you pop right up and say "Objection your Honor! “Appeal to consequences!”- The DA has an active antipathy towards correct logical reasoning, and thus loses the debate! " Pul*leeeze *tell me when you’re gonna try that Counselor, I’d love to see the look on the Judges face. Contempt or Section 8?

Yes, you’re damn we’re using an appeal to emotion. It’s someones beloved pet who was killed by a fucking sociopath in a cruel and stupid way- who even bragged about it in public (and you know that gets quite a few points towards “sociopath”, right?). Yes, we *are *emotional. *We have a right to be. *

This is not your fucking High School debating team, it’s not even a courtroom. It’s a message board, and in fact it’s a forum of a message board where posters are invited- nay encouraged*- to be emotional. You can take your “Objection! Appeal to consequences!” and cram it up your tight Republican ass ( use a hammer and lots of lube). Is *that *emotional enough for you?

  • For rants about the world …

Very dramatic.

But simply another fallacy: strawman, this time.

No one, least of all I, questions your right to be emotional. I question (and reject) your right to declare that your emotions make your factual claims correct.

So when you passionately defend your right to be emotional, and act as though you are rebutting my argument, you commit the strawman fallacy: attacking an argument I never made.

You have a very childlike view of the courtroom, and unfortunately your extensive experience as a watcher of “Law and Order,” does not equip you to grasp more complicated topics, it seems. An appeal to consequences is never proper argument if it’s form is, “Conclude this fact to be true even without evidence.”

However, since the jury’s function can be to extend or withhold leniency, appealing to the consequences of doing that is proper, and not fallacious.

This confusion again highlights your basic misunderstanding about what’s going on here: you’re appealing to consequences in order to persuade your audience that certain facts are true, as opposed to trying to persuade your audience of some preferred policy outcome.

It occurs to me that some readers might be interested in a quick explanation of the distinction DrDeth tried to raise between formal and informal fallacies. He seemed to believe that the naming of those categories conveyed some sort of importance – that only formal fallacies had some deleterious effect on the argument, and informal fallacies were of no concern except to earnest, bespectacled high school students vying for debate points during a competition.

That view is, unsurprisingly, incorrect.

A formal fallacy is one that fails as a matter of form – that is, it doesn’t fit into the formal steps of logical deduction.

For example, we imagine the statements

All snakes are in the taxonomic order squamata.
A python is a snake.
Therefore, a python is in the taxonomic order squamata.

That’s an example of a syllogism, a deductive scheme of formal argument containing a major and a minor premise and a conclusion that does not contain each foregoing premise. It’s also true.

Now consider:

All snakes are in the taxonomic order squamata.
A horse is a snake.
Therefore, a horse is in the taxonomic order squamata.

That’s an argument that is formally valid. However, one of its premises is untrue, and its conclusion is not correct. But as a matter of form, it is valid.

Now let’s consider an argument that is formally invalid, and yet contains true statements and a true conclusion:

Some snakes are in the taxonomic order squamata.
A python is a snake.
Therefore, a python is in the taxonomic order squamata.

Each statement is absolutely factually true. And the conclusion is true. Nonetheless, this argument is suffering a defect of form. It is formally invalid: because we only know that SOME snakes are squamata, we haven’t proved that a python is for sure a squamata.

And of course we can imagine an argument formally invalid and also false:

Some snakes are in the taxonomic order squamata.
A horse is a snake.
Therefore, a horse is in the taxonomic order squamata.

Now, turning to the informal fallacies, the problems that DrDeth believes are of no more than trivial concern. These fallacies generally share the trait that they obfuscate the issues and blur the terms and meanings of the questions at issue.

For example:

All snakes are in the taxonomic order squamata.
Rush Limbaugh is a snake.
Therefore, Rush Limbaugh is in the taxonomic order squamata.

This is an example of the fallacy of equivocation, which is an informal fallacy. The first proposition uses the word “snake,” to mean a literal scaled reptile. The second uses a colloquial definition of snake as meaning a worthless or treacherous person. Because each sentence, taken alone, can be defended as true, the conclusion is suspect, but the form of the argument is perfectly solid. There is no formal fallacy in this example, but the informal fallacy here is obviously not trivial.

Hopefully this digression was of some interest to those reading.

DrDeth has active antipathy towards anyone not treating George R. R. Martin’s books as objects of worship.

Yes, he does, but this is an example of fallacy. It distracts from the issue under discussion; it invites the reader to conclude that because DrDeth is obsessive about “A Song of Fire and Ice,” his opinions here are not to be trusted.

Both statements are true, but one does not imply the other.

Well, since your last post was about Dr and fallacies… :smiley:

::snicker::

Ah, I see… “By way of illustration…”

Well, in truth, I wasn’t interested until I read your post, then I was!

Thank you for a clear, concise and elegant explanation.

Well, we’ve seen “Lawyer Bricker”

Then, he got promoted to “Judge Bricker”

Now we have “Professor of Philosophy Bricker”

And the vet who shot a cat in the head and posted her grinning picture of the dead animal on facebook is still an unmitigated douchebag.

Actually, his last book was pretty dreadful. He needs a editor badly. One of the worst things to happen to a author is hubris, where they believe the hype and think they dont need a editor anymore.

But yeah, I like books. Sue me.

Appeal to emotion! Facts not in Evidence!:p:D:rolleyes:

Yes, yes. She’s a douchebag.

Was that the extent of your claim? That she was a douchebag?

I don’t disagree in the least. Never have.

But all the other stuff, the Lawyer/Judge/Professor business - what do you mean, specifically?

See what I mean about fallacies of distraction? You don’t actually say anything with those comments, but your tone is dismissive without crossing the line into any factual misstatements.

And…

Same point. You clearly and convincingly were rebutted on the factual argument, and this is your retreat?

My tone is dismissive because that is all you deserve.

Sure, sure – but have you noticed the difference? You’re attacking me, and saying that’s all I deserve, and you’re not addressing any of the factual issues that were presumably in play.

Do you believe that dismissing me automatically dismisses my inconvenient factual arguments also? Do you believe that readers of your words will forget my factual arguments after reading a personal attack on me?

You have made few factual arguments. Mainly you pooh-pooh others evidence as you claim it doesn’t meet the standards of a criminal trial.

We dont have to meet your standards, we just have to come up with evidence that is convincing enough for the other posters here- and we have. You are the sole dissenter. This is not a criminal trial, and you are not Judge Bricker. Again, this is the BBQ Pit, not Great Debates.

Bricker, it appears your legal opinions are correct.

I emailed the Texas Humane Legislation Network for clarification about the legality of killing feral cats. Here is the text of the reply I received:

Also, it was pointed out to me by a Texas animal rescue group that the law itself exempts even cruel behavior in some situations:

This Texas Bowhunting Ranch allows and even incentivizes killing feral cats:

I still maintain that bowhunting a cat is a cruel method of death, but in this case I doubt this vet will even be charged. The only question is how the DA will handle it. Will it even be presented to a grand jury?

Ah, the old nana nana boo boo, stick your head in doo doo argument, for [del]the win[/del] emphasis!

Kudos on your legal research, but it may not apply in this case. This may very well have been someone’s pet, and not a feral at all.

Well someone apparently wants to maintain their privacy and doesn’t want to get involved, according to posts upthread.