Isn’t Vick pretty rich for a dogfighter? It’s not like Bill Gates and Paul Allen sponsor dogfights. I’d say this is getting one of the rich guys.
Sailboat
Vick is, now, pretty rich, but he’s also “new money”.
I just suspect that there’s so-called “old money” involved with dog-fighting, too. The sort that has social contacts Vick can’t match.
Nothing I can prove, of course. And I may be letting my cynicism run off with my good sense.
Truthfully? My guess is he’ll be suspended 2 years and back in the saddle, with the league saying he deserves a chance to play again. He’ll be picked up somewhere, and we’ll be told he’s still a great talent who deserves a chance to redeem himself. He’ll be seen doing PSAs about being kind to animals. He’ll do work raising funds for the ASPCA. A team WILL sign him on, whether or not he’s locker-room cancer. Hell, they keep signing TO on, right?
Truth is, other players have done some pretty nasty shit over the years – charges of all kinds… what would the league look like if they came down harder on Vick for this than they did on the others? They’re going to be afraid of the precedent they set. Face it – football players aren’t exactly choirboys and altarboys. A lot of these boys make great rags-to-riches stories for the papers. Many don’t know what to do with the money they make now. Too many of them land their sorry asses into trouble at some point or another in their careers. The NFL has been trying hard to clean up its image.
Yeah, this whole shit is NASTY for the “cleaned up image” thing. This ain’t the sweet Manning Boys kind of image the NFL really wants us to see from all its players. Dogfighting blows. Possible racketeering/gambling chargers blow too. On the larger scale? If they handed him a lifetime suspension? What would they have to do with every player who crossed a legal line afterwards? I bet you that’s part of what the commissioner fears.
(Forgive me if my long ramble here is a great big mess o’ circumlocution. My brain is having some issues keeping its words straight this morning. Oh, temporal lobe epilepsy, how I love thee, let me count the ways! :P)
I think you underestimates the public’s love of comeback stories. If Vick comes back to the the NFL, I don’t think the reaction will be as strong as you say, especially after he pays his debt to society and if he is humble when he gets back.
He’s done. Stick a fork in him, he’s done. Notice that Goodell has refrained from any league disciplinary action beyond telling Vick to stay away from training camp – he doesn’t want to overreact or underreact before the facts are in. Had he suspended Vick for just the season, then he pleads guilty to felony conspiracy, people would argue that Pacman Jones got the same suspension and wasn’t even convicted. Had he suspended Vick for the season, then he is exonerated of the charges, people would say it was the Duke lacrosse case all over again.
He’s waiting to see what punishment is handed down on Monday, then he’ll impose an equally (if not more) severe punishment from the league. The Falcons will cut him, and move to regain portions of the signing bonus that were due to be paid out over the remainder of Vick’s contract. He’ll miss 07 and 08 due to prison, miss at least 09 and probably 10 due to a suspension – assuming it’s not a lifetime ban for admitted gambling – and who would take him on then?
I don’t think anyone believes his “apology” that his attorney passed on yesterday, considering that just a few weeks ago, he claimed he was ready to clear his good name through the same attorney. He’s not sorry he fought dogs, he’s sorry that he got punished for it. Last night, Sportscenter had a segment which showed clips of Vick interviews going back to Virginia Tech, then the draft, then the water bottle, then flipping the bird, then his interviews after the search of his property in April. Up until yesterday, it was nonstop “People love Michael Vick wherever I go, it’s not my fault.” That kind of attitude can’t be turned around quickly.
Fuck him.
(Also, hi, SDMB! It’s only been about nineteen years since I last posted. We can edit our posts, now? Th’ hell?)
There’s another problem facing Vick now: The Virginia AG is gathering evidence to take to a state grand jury, and if he decides to go ahead despite the federal plea, it could be a very long time before Vick sees daylight again.
I haven’t seen anything in the latest stories on Vick to indicate that the AG has changed his mind since the guilty plea.
[off topic]Hi, lno - where ya been??? Missed you!!![/off topic]
Normally, I’d agree. If there’s one thing we’ve seen from celebrity/political scandals, a contrite acting person that owns up to a mistake can come back. But, there is a big difference here. Usually, the scandal involves a person harming themselves, a tough to define constituency, or breaking a law. Vick was instrumental in both allowing dogs to fight to the death on his bankroll and of likely executing the dogs himself. Combine his minor prior public mis-steps with his brutality towards an animal that vast chunks of Americans own, love, and care for, and he’s pretty much toast. I think this one will fall under the category of violations that you just can’t fully come back from. He may have an epiphany and became a long-term voice for good, but I just can’t see him making it back to the NFL.
I also can’t picture the team that will take him. He’d need to find a team with a quarterback need and the ability and desire to take the major PR hit with employing him. He wouldn’t be worth signing as anything but a starter because no team will want to deal with the circus that would follow him if he’s a back-up. Stranger things have happened, but I’d be more likely to see him starting as the big name in some new start-up league as opposed to the NFL.
I hope he loses everything. He is a vile so-called human.
If he still has the talent to play in the NFL after 3 years off, I think someone will take him. As horrible as dog-fighting is, I just go by my “Leonard Little” rule. He killed a person while drunk driving, and he’s still in the league. Even after that, he was arrested for another DUI (although he was acquitted on that), and he’s in the league. Why? Because he’s a very good football player.
I also look at the statements from Deion and the rest who made half-assed excuses for it, or I look at the statements from the president of the Southern Christian Leadership who invited him to their conference. They’re already ready to forgive and forget.
It’s all about his excitement level. Even though he was, in my opinion, a below average quarterback, he was damn exciting, made the highlight reels, and sold a lot of tickets and jerseys. If he can still do those things in 3 years, someone will give him a shot in the preseason, if not the regular season.
As I understand it, if he is convicted of gambling with criminal associates, subsequent to an investigation by NFL security, Vick will face a lifetime ban from the sport. Which, while fitting, in my estimation doesn’t go far enough.
Dog fighting, like pedophilia/pederasty is one of those kind of crimes against the most innocent among us, where those who commit it ought to simply be put down. Once you’ve slammed a dog to the ground with enough force to kill it, not because you’re defending your own life or the life of someone else, but because the dog didn’t FIGHT another dog well enough, you’ve crossed the plane from human to rabid animal.
If a dog did what Vick did without provocation to another dog, the offending dog would be taken into custody as vicious and be destroyed. Vick is no better than a dog mad with rabies, and though he was born into this world as human, he, and the rest of the worthless slabs of human refuse who use dogs as fighting instruments for their own enjoyment, ought to leave this world the same way as they dispatched those innocent animals.
Well, I would say that I agree - if, in three years, he can still make the highlight reels, be an exciting player, and sell tickets and jerseys, he will get a chance with someone. But in three years, he’ll be 30 years old. He’ll be three years removed from reading an NFL defense, three years removed from throwing a 15-yard out, and three years slower in a full sprint. It would be tremendously unlikely, I think, for him to be the same player he has been in the last two years after three years away from the game and moving into his thirties.
And he’ll never sell tickets and jerseys the way he did. The fans accept Leonard Little’s existence, but they don’t idolize him. Whether or not he plays another down in the NFL, Vick’s viability as a marketing tool ends the minute he pleads guilty.
My friend’s dad had roosters in their backyard that he used for cock fighting, mostly because he was a sick fuck. Historical or not, cock fighting is no less dispicable than forcing any other animal to fight another for your entertainment; hell, I HAD friends that would take fighting fish and throw them in a tank together for their entertainment and that is still incredibly fuckin’ sadistic.
Anywho, I called the cops when I found out what he was doing to the roosters. He was fined, but the birds weren’t even taken away.
Then one day they got a pit bull. I didn’t think about it at first, but I eventually found it very strange that unlike their other dogs, she was locked on the side of the house, on a dirt dog run with nothing but a pool of dirty water. One day when we were in the yard, I walked out there and opened the gate because I felt so bad for her. Oh man, they SCREAMED at me not to do it, but I’d already opened the gate. But you know what? That dog was SO HAPPY that someone was paying attention to her, she was jumping all over me and mouthing me like dogs tend to do, but wasn’t being aggressive. So I’m not sure if they thought she’d hurt me or if they thought I’d make her soft, but either way they freaked out.
I noticed while playing with her though that the dog had random scars and marks. Putting two and two together, I called the police before I even made it to the car. I explained the cock fighting thing before and how I was disgusted they didn’t even take away the birds and that now they are likely killing dogs. The dad was arrested, but he was out that same night. He ended up paying a fine and that was it.
There usually aren’t huge penalties for animal cruelty, not unless you are literally the ring leader, as it seems Vick was.
Just because he’s IN the NFL, that doesn’t mean he should be. I know nothing at all about Leonard Little and the surrounding situation, but I do know criminals do NOT belong in professional sports.
Really? Deion Sanders and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference? Hardly ringing endorsements. Of course they’re ready to forgive and forget… ( it will be nearly impossible to continue this arguement without sounding like a racist, but I’ll do my best) First, Deion Sanders though arguably one of the best cornerbacks in football (which in itself is meaningless, but it’s what he’s known for) had this to say about Vick…
A statement so horribly juxtaposed against the truth of American society, that it renders his opinion of Vick’s actions as little more than apologist for a brutal monster of a human being.
The same seems to ring true for the SCLC; I wonder if, for instance, Brian Finneran, were in the same tub of hot water, the SCLC would come to his aid this way. I will go out on a limb here and say I doubt it, but also that it’s meaningless because we’ll never know because it’s not Finneran, it’s Vick.
Missy2U, Re: lno-- I keep him chained in the basement! 
I agree, he shouldn’t be back, he’s a jackass of all jackasses. Why do the commentators all seem to agree that he will be back in some way, though? That’s what I want to know?
You’re confusing should with could. I’m also unsure where I stand on felons in professional sports. Why should pro sports be any different from almost any other job in the world? I know there is the role model factor, but I think it’s a huge mistake to look up to someone (or let your kids look up to someone) because they can run fast and throw a football. They’re there for my amusement, not to provide life lessons.
I agree, and I’m sure Vick’s race makes a difference in their choices to make excuses for them. But they are, I think, merely reflecting what the population of football fans think. Plus, in my view, people in the US are violently reaction orientated, meaning that they will be condemning Vick in the most vehement terms for the length of the news cycle, and then they’ll forget. And if Vick isn’t banned for life, still has the skills, and shows some humility and remorse, the NFL, and it’s fans, will grudgingly accept him back.
Well, my company won’t hire anyone with a felony conviction. Neither would my last company. I’m sure a lot of others are the same way. So, just because someone has served their time doesn’t mean it’s an automatic forgive-n-forget career-wise.
Well, I wouldn’t exactly use the word “valor” when referring to Vick unless of course that happens to be the name of the guy that makes Vick his bitch in prison. His guilty plea was merely to save his own ass. His dog fighting buddies took a plea deal and were going to testify against him.
Vick is a worthless piece of shit.
It’s the de facto “well, if he can play again, than so can Vick” arguement:
He’s still a defensive end for the Rams.
No I’m not. Little, if he killed someone, SHOULDN’T play in the NFL anymore. Period. The League made the wrong decision in allowing him to return.
You commit (and are convicted of) a felony and then try and get a job above dishwasher or day laborer two or three years after that. The role model factor exists despite the fact it shouldn’t. It always has, and it always will because of the role sport plays in the development of so many young men and women. It’s a huge mistake, maybe, but there’s no getting around it.