I don’t see how making a commercial about “white privilege” does much to stop people being defensive. If it is a universal experience, why are these kinds of things always aimed at whites and what we are supposed to do?
:shrugs:
White liberal guilt was never a shortcoming to which I was very subject, and I have gone beyond irritation at having fingers pointed at me into indifference (mostly). I am not causing any of the problems of the various minorities, so I don’t need to do anything different.
There is a girl at my work that just recently got a promotion.
She’s got a really nice rack.
So I guess everybody would be cool if I just came out and said she got the promotion because of her awesome boobage? And NOT for her hard work?
Yes, we always need to make strides towards racial equality. But really, priority wise, racial equality is about number 5 or 6 on the list of things we need to be worrying about.
If any minority wants to cry: “I can’t be successful because white people are racist.” It’s Bull Shit. Time for some people to take responsibility for their own actions and quit trying to blame Whitey.
The statement that white people in this country have a privileged status is not a stereotype. It is not any statement at all about any individual. It is an assertion about the conditions of the larger culture; it contains no form of judgment whatever for any individual.
For what it’s worth, I think mika’s complaint about being the only Indian person around is kind of irrelevant (though in general we see eye to eye on the issue).
I am less likely to get a job interview or an apartment than a person with a “Western” name. That doesn’t mean white people are privileged, though; it means everyone else is somewhat underprivileged. Black people are four times more likely to be sentenced to death than white people, six times more likely to be pulled over. The fucking POTUS has to deal with nonsense about how he can’t possibly have gotten where he is on merit, because he’s black.
Given that, I consider myself pretty lucky to be where I am.
It’s also time for most “whiteys” to walk a mile in someone else’s shoes. Before we crow about how racism is mostly an issue of the past, we should consider polls like this: amidst a general belief that things are getting better, 65% of whites believes that blacks have achieved, or will soon achieve, racial equality. 16% of blacks think the same thing.
One could hypothesize that 49% of blacks are whiners and trying to blame whitey. Or one can think that people may be living quite different experiences depending on what race they are. I would associate myself with the latter category.
This is such an asshole, dismissive thing to say. No one said (“cried”) anything like that, and “racism doesn’t affect anyone ever” or “it is impossible for minorities to succeed in life because of ‘Whitey’” are not actually the only possibilities.
It’s unfortunate that almost all nonwhite individuals incorrectly believe that racism negatively impacts their lives, huh? Good thing people like you can set them straight, since you obviously know more about their experiences than they do.
I agree with you actually. My bit about "I can’t succeed because whitey is racist.’ was meant to draw a line as to how far one can take this whole victimization thing.
I mean, I know we have our problems, but damn, let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater. OK?
Why would you take something that’s true and exaggerate it to the point where it’s ridiculous and untrue? “What? You say global warming is real? Well it’s obviously incorrect that it’s a hundred billion degrees, genius.” Does that make sense to say?
Dude, are you serious? The only people who think reality is anything like that would be found in an institution somewhere. Eddie Murphy is exaggerating to the point of ridiculousness, but as a joke. It wouldn’t be funny if it was literally true (well, I don’t think it’s funny anyway, because I think Eddie Murphy is annoying).
You can’t treat minorities better without things getting worse for white people in zero-sum games like employment and higher education, though. When one person gets a job, all the other candidates didn’t get it. When only 100 people will be admitted to a prestigious college program, or 10 will get a full tuition scholarship, there are a lot of other applicants who were turned away.
White people have traditionally had it easier than non-whites in a lot of ways, whether they realize, care, acknowledge it, or not–this is the definition of privilege. And making things easier for non-whites means that white people are now going to have it less easy (or, as is semantically-equivalent, harder) than they used to. That’s the logical consequence of acknowledging privilege*. *It’s also necessary if we are to progress as a nation/species.
Whites who complain about affirmative action (despite the fact that we are not even close to racial parity in the US) don’t realize that without it, things would currently be even worse for non-whites. Well… either they don’t realize it or they don’t care, because they’re afraid of losing the advantages they had before AA existed. Whether or not we call this racism (which to some whites is a more offensive term than the N-word), I say it’s pretty fuckin’ repugnant to want to keep holding non-whites back for the sake of continuing your own advancement (advancement that was built on the oppression of, and at the expense of, non-white people). You can’t say, “black people are doing fine now, enough with the AA bullshit,” and make it so. The numbers don’t agree with you.
“Because we’ve always done it this way” or “this is the most fair way” are bullshit arguments, but commonly trotted out by conservatives in this debate. If you (general you) are compelled to think or say that, you should take a fair few steps back and figure out why you’re so threatened by the possibility of racial parity. Because anyone who thinks we’re already at racial parity *isn’t *looking at the facts… they’re deluding themselves.
I am a white person who is willing to give up my white privilege so that non-whites can have it better. Obviously I can’t put my privilege in a bucket, go hand it to a black girl my age, and be done with it :p. But I can advocate for affirmative action (even knowing it may come at the expense of my own job), higher college subsidies for non-whites (even knowing I might pay more for my own education or go to a lower-ranked school as a result), try to change the minds of old white dudes who won’t acknowledge their privilege (even though it pisses them off and causes them to write me off as a hopelessly idealistic libtard), and refuse to hang around people who are racist assholes (even though it may cost me relationships and make me look snobby). Over time, the hope is that these small things, which every white person *can *do, will lead to future improvements for non-whites.
And I’m sure that posting about this will probably get me hardcore snarked on elsewhere–oh well. I don’t say this stuff to get cred or to be internet-cool or because I think it makes me a better person than anyone else. I’m say it because there’s a lot of ignorance about privilege which I felt up to fighting today. Any haters can kindly suck it.
Depends on the problem, I suppose, and especially on what they think causes it and what I need to do about it.
If they are saying that white privilege is the source of most of the problems in some minority group, then they have to show how that is the case. And not just by running a PSA saying “no fair”. And also, not by simply saying how they are disadvantaged and assuming it is because of white privilege.
It seems a little silly to say that white privilege consists of not being treated as a group, and that this is unfair, and at the same time saying that whites as a group have this privilege.
White racism is not the source of the problems of most of the minorities in the US. And minorities who have overcome racism didn’t do it by pointing fingers at white people.
If advancement is a zero-sum game, as you seem to be saying, then isn’t it equally repugnant to say that whites should be held back for the sake of other peoples’ advancement? In other words, “privilege” is unfair, but only if it applies to one group and not to others?
If it is unfair to hold a group back so that another group can advance, isn’t it unfair to hold a group back so that another group can advance? The solution to injustice is not more injustice.
If that is what the PSA is saying, that whites have to be held back so that non-whites can get their goodies, then my reaction to the PSA goes from indifference to outright refusal. I am not going agree to be treated unjustly, and non-whites who want me to can go pound sand. Because they have given up the only persuasive argument they have that “white privilege” is wrong - that it is unjust.
“This is wrong, and we need to continue it, just in a way that screws a different set of people”. No thanks. If it is unjust for you, it is unjust for anyone else.
Most whites aren’t privileged; they are in fact treated poorly. It’s just that non-whites are treated even worse. Which is one reason why claims of “white privilege” are received poorly; someone who is being ground down and exploited isn’t going to buy it when someone tells them that they are “privileged”, even if they are objectively better off than the person making the accusation.
And this entire idea reeks of divide-and-conquer; the poor and mistreated in general deserve better treatment, but they aren’t likely to get if if they spend their energy beating on each other. This argument over who’s the worst treated and the idea that only the worst treated deserve sympathy and aid only benefits the rich and powerful who are doing the mistreating. The same logic that leads to the claim that poor whites aren’t supposed to complain because they are “privileged” leads to groups like blacks and Jews and gays and women getting into collective screaming matches over who has been treated worse, and accomplishes nothing except dividing them against each other.
If “privileged” means “receives preferential treatment” then this Whitey disagrees.
Of course, I can only go by my own experience. I’ve known lots of folks of lots of races, most of 'em were Americans. It’s my experience that, when dealing with people who have lived here their entire lives, I run about a 1 in 3 chance of coming across an asshole irrespective of the color of their skin. For my part, I disfavor assholes and reward, probably disproportionately, people whom I feel are being up front and reasonable. I don’t keep track of race or ethnicity in general for stuff that matters because it’s just not a reliable indicator of anything I need to know. ZIP codes, on the other hand…
If “privileged” means “wealth” then I might get on board, but it’s more to do with fate and the culture you were born into than any insidious, deep-rooted conspiracy to keep someone in their place. I have family that has been satisfied being trailer/shack trash since there have been trailers/shacks. My parents left because their desire to be something ‘better’ was stronger than their love of the family they left behind. They were unusual, and in a sense the pair of Southern hicks living in Seattle were immigrants. Most people prefer to stick with what they know, and I refuse to believe I am responsible for American subcultures who shun education and taxable work when they don’t want it anyway.
This is true, but the white people who really are privileged seem to be at least as likely as less privileged ones to take issue with the claim. And I wish more of the white people who haven’t been treated right either wouldn’t take such offense at the suggestion that, all else being equal, they still have more privilege than they would if they weren’t white. I’m white and I feel pretty beaten down by society too. There are enough things that suck about life to go around though and I can acknowledge the unearned privileges I do have.
It shouldn’t be a divide-and-conquer situation. Exploited groups should band together and fight for causes that only affect some of them. Not that that’s likely to happen to any great degree, but it would be nice.
Agreed, the idea that “white” people have some kind of monolithic culture or experience is one of the things that sours any reasonable discussion in the USA. And no one dares mention the forbidden word class.
But some of you are arguing things which are not racial privilege, like wealth.
When my wife can say there is not a snowballs chance in hell they would even listen to our plea, and I say what? nah stay here and let me go talk to them…ok they agreed. That is privilege right there.
